Scott Oldford on Becoming Transparent and Finding Authenticity

The Transcript

Scott Oldford on Becoming Transparent and Finding Authenticity

Voiceover: Welcome to Hack the Entrepreneur, the show which reveals the fears, habits and inner battles behind big-name entrepreneurs and those on the way to joining them. Now here is your host, Jon Nastor.

Jonny Nastor: Welcome, welcome, welcome to Hack the Entrepreneur. I am so glad that you decided to join me today. My name is Jon Nastor, but you can call me Jonny.

Today’s guest is a young entrepreneur who has spent half of his life in technology, marketing and building businesses. By the age of 21, he had three catastrophic business failures and was hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Now, at the age of 23, he is the founder of INFINITUS Marketing + Technology, a company he has been building for nearly two years.

He’s been the recipient of the 2013 American Express Innovator Award, and he was also named one of the Youth In Motion’s Top 20 Under 20 in Canada. He is also a master connector, using the techniques and strategies outlined in his new book, Connections That Count.

My guest has added over $500,000 in extra revenue to his business in less than a year and has connected with more than 800 people by hosting what he calls “Limitless Business Dinners and Lunches” all over North America.

Now, let’s hack Scott Oldford.

I want to thank today’s sponsor, FreshBooks, for making my life easier. What is the one thing that I am no good at? I am horrible at staying on top of my bookkeeping and accounting for my business, but now, rather than losing receipts and handing my accountant this giant, messy box of papers, FreshBooks has this amazing app for my iPhone and lets me instantly take pictures of receipts and sort them by touching a couple buttons.

FreshBooks is designed for small business owners like you and me. FreshBooks integrates directly with three things that I use every single day in my business: PayPal, Stripe, and MailChimp

To start your 30-day free trial today, go to Freshbooks.com/Hack, and don’t forget to enter “Hack the Entrepreneur” in the “How did you hear about us?” section.

Welcome back to another episode of Hack the Entrepreneur. This is one of those special episodes again. I have a fellow Canadian — another fellow Canadian. There’s so many of us on this show.

Scott, welcome to the show.

Scott Oldford: Thanks so much, Jon. I love to be Canadian, and I love to be here with you today.

Jonny Nastor: Excellent. Let’s get this rolling. Scott, as an entrepreneur, what is the one thing that you do that you feel has been the biggest contributor so far to your successes?

How Scott Stopped Creating Content That Was Boring

Scott Oldford: I would say that it would come down to two things.

Jonny Nastor: Perfect.

Scott Oldford: One is the ability to be not just an entrepreneur, but to be authentic and transparent. That’s one of the biggest things that I’ve ever changed, and it happened this year. When we’re our self instead of somebody else or someone who we think we’re supposed to be, the dots connect automatically in some weird way.

Honestly, for one thing, that would be it; just be who you are. That’s something that took me a while to learn.

Jonny Nastor: Was there something significant that happened that caused you to become aware that you needed to go for authenticity and transparency?

Scott Oldford: Yes. It was funny, actually. Back in March, we set up a call with Chris Brogan, and we were going through everything. We were just about to launch a podcast. We had a great email list, but no one really cared. We never got any replies. We weren’t getting any engagement from the things that we were doing, and Chris said, “Listen, your content is generic. I could replace your logo with anybody else’s. You don’t bleed on the page. You don’t really talk about anything. You need to be more transparent.”

I started from transparency in a company, and as time went on and weeks and weeks went on, I started becoming more comfortable with being transparent. Up to this point, nobody knew my kind of failure story. In talking about that failure story, I remembered when I published it, I went in the shower and basically cried, and there was just this moment of, “You know what? I’m just going to be who I am.” No great person ever got where they were going by being somebody else. It was just the self-awareness that was developed over the last year, in all honesty.

That’s when things start really happening and connecting, and things really turned to be the direction that I wanted them to go. Yeah, it all started with Chris, and we’ve become great friends through that process. He’s really coached me through becoming transparent.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah. Chris Brogan, he was actually the first guest on my show.

Scott Oldford: Oh, really?

Jonny Nastor: It’s pretty cool. When you first spoke to him in March, was that through Clarity?

Scott Oldford: Yeah, it was actually.

Jonny Nastor: I just had Dan Martell on, so we were talking Clarity. I love Clarity.

Let’s go back. It’s March. You are going to put out a podcast to go with your business, and you go on a call with Chris Brogan, which lots of us do. It’s a smart thing to get advice from a genius like him, right? In branding, especially.

Scott Oldford: Exactly.

Jonny Nastor: The guy knows it. Correct me if I’m completely wrong, but I’m assuming you go into it, and you’re like, “Okay, Chris is going to tell us the five steps to make a killer podcast,” and he just tells you, “Actually, your stuff is kind of generic, and I can replace your logo with anybody’s.” How does that feel when Chris Brogan tells you that?

Scott Oldford: You know what? He’s a very honest guy anyway, which I love. He looked at our website. He was like, “You guys are just another web development company.”

It was really funny, because if you go to our website now, it’s all about you” instead of about “we.” At the time, it was, “We do this. We do that.” A lot of people don’t understand that when you are trying to make someone believe something, you talk about the person that’s believing and that you’re going to get them to believe in, compared to, “We won this award,” and “We’re going to make your life great.”

I remember it was a 16-minute phone call. I think it cost $420 or $450, something like that, and that was probably one of the most pivotal moments in recent history for me. The shit that I thought I had together really isn’t together, and we need to change how we do things.

The Need to Be Authentic and Transparent in Your Business

Scott Oldford: We sent an email out that was completely on character of who we were the next day, and it was talking about our call with Chris Brogan and all the things that we were doing that we shouldn’t be doing. We had something like 15 or 20 email replies, and this was the first time we ever got a reply to an email in our entire six months since we were sending emails.

We said, “Wow, that is interesting. That makes sense.” It just evolved from there. We just kept on doing things, and I kept on doing things that made me uncomfortable. Whenever I make a decision to publish something now, if it’s not going to make me cry when I publish it because it cuts deep, and it’s real self-awareness and real insecurities and these types of things, I don’t publish it because no one really cares.

That’s my new rule that I’ve adopted from a hybrid between Chris Brogan and James Altucher.

Jonny Nastor: Nice. I love it. I think it’s absolutely true. If you’re not willing to put yourself out there and put passion and yourself into it, then why should anybody care?

Scott Oldford: Exactly.

Jonny Nastor: Right? It’s just the way it is. Sometimes it feels weird; it puts people off even, certain people, but that’s totally fine too. We don’t need to make everyone happy.

Scott Oldford: Yeah. When I sent that email out, I had some people basically be, “Eff off,” all these different types of things. You’re going to find, I really believe — and again, this is a new belief for me as well — that clients and people that don’t need to be around you won’t be around you if you are who you are, but if you’re trying to be somebody else, you’re going to be around a bunch of people that you probably don’t like, and if you don’t have the same values, you just dread them.

If you have clients who, when you take the phone call and you’re like, “Oh, my God,” or you see their email come in and say, “Oh, what is it now?”, compare that to when you get a client email and you have similar values and a great relationship: “How can I help them?”

When you’re authentic and when you’re true to yourself and your business is true to the values and you pick the right clients and the right people to work with, not only are you going to be a lot happier, but you’re going to be able to do a lot better work and get to your destination a lot faster.

Jonny Nastor: Yes, exactly. Funny story, Scott — I send my newsletter to my listeners once a week.

This past one on Sunday, I sent it out from the gym. I just worked out. My wife and daughter were still swimming. I said all this in the newsletter. This is great; right? I got good engagement, but I didn’t proof it, because it’s just how I am, so I sent it. Then it popped up on my phone because I’m on the list, and I read it, and there’s my newsletter, and then right below it is my newsletter from two weeks before that I had not deleted, so it’s like this super-long email.

I’m just like, “I’m such an idiot”; that’s all I say, and then, “no.” I run an email back to the list again to all these people on there who are listening right now, but I was just like, “I’m an idiot. Sorry. I apologize.” All I want to say is that if I can run a successful business online and a podcast and I can screw up this badly and be this much of an idiot, trust me, you can do it, too.

Scott Oldford: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: Fifteen percent of the people on the list replied to my email and said, “Thank you for the sincerity.”

Finding Your Level of Genius

Scott Oldford: You know what? Everything I write goes through a writer, because I’m a horrible writer. Almost everything I write on Facebook and on Twitter — there’s no such thing as grammar, no such thing as spelling. Typically, anyone that brings up the grammar, if it’s not in a totally business environment, I’m going to say, “Screw off. I’ll block you.” If all you have to do all day is look for other people’s mistakes, I don’t really want your energy around me.

In saying that, just as a story for you: I remember when I was launching a company. It was probably three years ago. I don’t know how we did it. Honest to God, I really don’t, but the title, the subject line had a blatantly obvious spelling mistake, and it went through two different writers at the time. There were six people that proofed this. None of us realized what it was.

It was a push-to-send button, and holy crap, I had 30 people reply. This was the first email of, “Hey, we’re the new kids on the block for this,” and it started off with a subject line that had the worst spelling mistake of my life in it. If both of us can screw up as badly as we do and get the results that we do get, I completely believe that anybody can do it.

Jonny Nastor: Exactly. When Dan Martell was on – actually, he says he’s a terrible speller, too, and with grammar — he was writing, at that point, once a day on his blog. I love it. He said, “I don’t proof. I just literally write it. I hit ‘publish,’ because emails will start showing up from people telling me about the corrections or comments.” He’s like, “It’s great. It’s awesome.”

Scott Oldford: He posts his thing to WordPress, and then obviously his wife owns Onboardly, which is a PR company. He typically gets some flak from over there, I would expect. Then people just email him with all the corrections, and he doesn’t even need to worry about it.

Jonny Nastor: He goes in and fixes them, he says. He just says, “I don’t even hire any editors. There’s editors out there for me.”

Scott Oldford: It’s like crowd sourcing your editing, which is not a bad idea.

Jonny Nastor: Exactly.

Why and How Attending Events Can Change Your Life

Jonny Nastor: Scott, in every entrepreneur’s life, there’s a time where they realized they either have to make something big and make a mark in the world; they have some calling for it, or — which seems to be more the case with my guess — they realize they just can’t work for someone else.

Scott Oldford: Right.

Jonny Nastor: Can you tell me which one of these is you and when this happened?

Scott Oldford: I’ve never worked for anyone else, so I’m going to cross that one off. I don’t know what it really feels like to work for somebody else, thankfully, and that’s a great advantage.

Just a quick 30 seconds of my story — I had my first business when I was 8 selling eggs, and by the time I was 16, I had a full-fledged budget and a company with 30 or 40 people — somewhere in between, depending on the time of the year — working with me, from all over the world. I had massive failure when I was 19, had a massive failure when I was 20, had a massive failure when I was 21 — so three in a row.

You know what? It was June of 2013, which is not very long ago, in reality. Then I merged my company into another one, and I got depressed, actually. I got very depressed because I didn’t have full control. I didn’t have full ownership. I didn’t feel like I was pursuing my real dream. I start overeating. I started playing a stupid amount of video games and was not motivated.

There was a pivotal point in May, June. I got to experience a three-day event, and that one event literally changed the direction of my life and the reason why I’m here right now. I came back from that on a Friday. I moved my stuff out of the office on a Saturday. On Sunday, the partner asked, “Hey, where are you off to?” I’m like, “Hey, listen, I’m out. This is done.”

At the time, I had three quarters of a million dollars in debt. I had $600 in my bank account, and I had a $10,000 credit card limit that was my mother’s, and that’s what I built my career and company with. It was one of those moments where I didn’t have any room to screw up. If I screw up, I’m going to end up back at my parents’ house, or I’m going to end up probably having a well-paid job because I have a lot of talent and I have a lot of skills. But that’s not the life that I want to live, and that’s not my destiny.

Learning to Give Without Asking for Anything in Return

Scott Oldford: I just had that moment where I said “failure isn’t an option, and instead of trying to figure out how to get something for me, I’m going to figure out how I can give value and give help to other people.”

There was this paradigm shift where that happened, where I was looking at what I can give the universe instead of the other way around, and as soon as my mindset changed and as soon as my character changed on that perspective, my entire life changed.

We did just under a million dollars in revenue in our first year, and we were able to do some amazing stuff because we weren’t thinking about –at least I wasn’t thinking about — me. I was thinking about who we worked with and the people that were around us.

Jonny Nastor: Nice. This is interesting, because this is your last chance you felt where if you failed you would have to work, although it would be a high-paying job with the skills and the knowledge you have.

Scott Oldford: I don’t really care about money, right? You could give me a million dollars a year as a salary, and I’d still say, “Screw off.” Because I would definitely classify myself as the misfit, unemployed type of person, but I have very strong direction: “There’s no such thing as ’No,’ and if you say something is impossible, then good luck, because I’m going to make it possible” type of thing.

There’s just no way I would ever be able to work for anyone. Inside of that, if this failed at the time that it did, I essentially would have had to put myself in bankruptcy and remortgage my parents’ house, which is not exactly something that you ever want to do. There was lots of pressure there. You know what I mean?

Jonny Nastor: That’s typical now, yeah.

Scott Oldford: Right. I’m sure if it came to that, I’m sure I could get by working with someone or working for someone, but I’d probably fall in a deep, deep depression, to be honest.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, that’s fair enough. You took your company — in the first year — to a million dollars in revenue, so this means to me that you know how to work. Let’s segue into some work.

Why Scott Believes No One Should Focus on More than Two Things

Jonny Nastor: Because you had a conference yesterday or event that you put on, today was a day that you didn’t have much to do, but, say, tomorrow is a full-on work day or whenever your next full-on workday is. Can you walk us through, say, the first 30 minutes of that workday and how you set yourself up to kick ass and go to a million dollars in revenue in one year?

Scott Oldford: Sure. I’m not sure if you know Hal Elrod and The Miracle Morning or not. If you don’t have him on here, I would highly recommend him: Hal Elrod, The Miracle Morning.
He’s a friend of mine, and I’m working with him on developing an app for The Miracle Morning, but the whole idea is that you do a few key things in the morning, from meditation to reading to journaling to visualization, these types of things.

The first 30 minutes of my day is, first off, tech-free. There’s no technology in the first hour, typically, but I’m going to say 30 minutes. I get up. I drink a liter of water. I go back and I get in the shower for about 15 minutes, and in the shower I meditate, I visualize, and essentially from a gratitude perspective, think about what I’m grateful for. Then I think about what I’m actually doing today and get myself in the mindset.

So it’s really loud music, all motivational music, and I have an absolutely amazing shower that has two shower-heads, and it’s my place where I’ve always been able to let my mind roam free. Then, from there, I use a Five Minute Journal, which is an absolutely brilliant journaling book that phrases things from what you’re grateful for to what you want to accomplish today, these types of things. I’ll be completely honest. The last couple of weeks I haven’t, but I’ll typically do 20 minutes on the treadmill.

That’s a typical first hour of my day. Does it happen every single day? Definitely not, but I’m striving to make it so that it is a habit that I won’t break, because it is so powerful to have that first hour in the morning to yourself so that you can frame the rest of the day.

Jonny Nastor: Nice. You don’t check your phone first thing in the morning?

Scott Oldford: No, I don’t. I don’t have email on my phone.

Jonny Nastor: That’s probably pretty typical.

Scott Oldford: Yeah, completely. I’ll check my text messages, because basically anybody that texts me, it’s probably something that’s important or they are important in my life. Outside of any text messages and that sort of thing, that’s really all I have to look for when I hopefully don’t push the snooze button.

Jonny Nastor: Excellent, yeah. After the 30 minutes, this then brings you into your work day?

Scott Oldford: Sure.

Jonny Nastor: Every blog post, every productivity expert now is talking about the 80/20 rule, and they say to do what you’re good at and delegate or get rid of the rest.

Scott Oldford: Sure.

Jonny Nastor: Can you tell us something, Scott, that you are absolutely not good at?

Scott Oldford: I’m horrible at writing, but I do it anyway. That’s number one. I’m horrible at managing, so I don’t do it.

I’ll give you the low-down. A couple months ago, as a team, we got together and we essentially fired me from everything in the company besides two things. I have no control over the execution whatsoever in the company. That’s not my forte. I can do it, but I should be doing things that I can bill $300 an hour for, not things that I can get somebody to do for $30 an hour.

It really came down to my two things that I love the most, not the two things that I’m best at, but the two things that I enjoy the most. They were, number one, which is strategy, and that means strategy for the company, planning, those types of things. Then strategy for clients: where we’re going to be going in three years, how we get there, where we’re going this year, how to execute, these types of things.

The second thing was developing relationships. Developing relationships — that means business development. That means going and having lunches and dinners and events with other brilliant entrepreneurs and business people, because that’s our main way of gaining new business.

I believe that no one should focus on more than two things in their business. In order for me to actually get there, another thing that I had to do in the last few months was hire a financial strategist to take care of all the finance side of the business, because I’m just not good with it. It’s one of those things that not only am I not good at, but if I continue to manage the finances, I’d probably end up in a bad place.

I’m completely aware of this, and my team is aware of this, and we’re a very transparent company. Everybody knows how much money we make on a monthly basis. Everybody knows how much each person makes. We’re a very close-knit culture and a very transparent culture, and 40% of our profit is shared, too, with everybody that works in the company.

Change 80/20 to the 95/5 Rule and Find Your Core 5 Percent

Scott Oldford: Just sort of going back to that main point, I think the 80/20 rule needs to be the 95/5 rule. I think that everybody in your company, everybody in your organization, needs to be doing 95% of the things that they absolutely love. This is very different: 95% percent of what they love. That does not mean 95% of what they are good at. It’s two totally different things.

When people love what they do, which they should, and you give them the right job and you give them the right responsibilities based on what they enjoy, there’s no hours. There’s no overtime. Because that is what they would do regardless of whether they were there or not.

It’s inevitable that 5% — you’re not going to enjoy it. If you really want to build a great culture and you really want to build a great company, you get everybody to understand what they love. You understand what they like.

For example, the person who writes our proposals, she’s good at writing proposals, but there’s two other people in the company that are far better but they don’t enjoy it, and because they don’t enjoy it, they don’t do it, because I don’t want them to be doing something that they don’t enjoy.

Think about this, Jon. When you’re spending an hour on something that you don’t enjoy, you’re only really getting 10 or 15 minutes of productivity, but if you’re spending an hour on something that you really love, you’re getting four hours of productivity. There’s a huge multiplier dividing effect.

Jonny Nastor: Wow. Yeah, that’s smart.

Scott Oldford: A lot of the things that I stopped doing, I created processes for and then used things like Zapier, Fancy Hands, we have a receptionist — all these different types of things — in order to automate certain parts of my life. It doesn’t cost a ton of money.

I realize a lot of people don’t have a team, and I realize a lot of people don’t have a pretty big budget for a team or such things, but outsource everything.

I hate grocery shopping, so I outsource grocery shopping to somebody else. Every single week they get the exact same thing at the grocery store, because I eat the exact same thing every week. I hate washing clothes. My fiancée hates washing clothes. If we both don’t like washing clothes, that’s probably going to create stress on our relationship when it’s like, “Why aren’t the clothes done?” So guess what? We outsource that, too.

People create problems for themselves. It’s like, “Listen, clean the house.” My fiancée also works from home. She has, technically, plenty of time to clean. It’s like she doesn’t want to clean, so for $40 a week, why not get somebody to actually clean your house, because again, it’s going to create stress on your relationship. It’s going to create stress on yourself. I guarantee you, if I’m going to be cleaning the house, somebody better be paying me $300 an hour, because I know that my time is that valuable.

Find your level of genius, and find that 5% that you offer, that 5% of genius that you offer, and get rid of everything else, because typically, 100% of the things that we do, only 95% of them are replaceable.

Jonny Nastor: Exactly. Awesome, Scott. Let’s move quickly to the future for you and your company. We’re sitting here exactly one year from today. We’re celebrating the amazing year Scott and INFINITUS had. Can you tell me what it was you did and what you accomplished to make it such an awesome year?

Scott Oldford: I had focus, which most entrepreneurs don’t have because we all have ADD for the most part, or a similar screwed-up thing that they call a disability, so focus. We’re really bad at focus.

Second is empowering every single person that’s around me so that they can make the decisions that they need to make and so that I don’t need to be part of them. Entrepreneurs are also not good at giving control, because we want to control our destiny, and thus we want to control everything around us, and ensuring that from a financial perspective, I’m working with the right people and that I surround myself with the best of the best and I don’t settle for anything less than what I’m worth and what the company is worth.

Almost every entrepreneur and almost everybody goes through this period of time where they self-doubt themselves. It limits us from saying, “Hey, I’m worth $50 an hour,” to the fact that, ‘I’ve been working for 15 years. I have 15 years’ experience. In my niche, in my industry, I’m worth a shit-load of money.”

For example, you know Chris Brogan. I think he charged $750 an hour, whatever — Dan Martell, $1,000 an hour. I guarantee if you have a conversation with him on the telephone for an hour, he’s going to make you a hundred times your investment, right? Think about that.

It’s like, okay, well, my hourly fee is obviously really low. Not having self-doubt and self-worth issues, which are something that I’ve been struggling with, because it’s like, “Why me? Why am I here?” — when you get rid of that, man, the world is limitless.

Jonny Nastor: Nice. Very, very well said. We’ve talked about your company a lot, Scott. We’ve talked about you a lot. Can you tell people where they can go and find out about those two things?

Scott Oldford: Certainly. Of course, as you said, the company is INFINITUS, but I don’t expect anyone to know how to spell it. They can find me over at ScottOldford.com. From there, we have a couple podcasts, Limitless Business Podcasts, as well as The Executive Minute.

I’m not the most active on Twitter, but I’m very active on Facebook. As long as you look like a cool person and you’re exciting from the first page view, I always accept because I always love meeting interesting people. I crave human connection, and I love the ability of being able to help people.

Jonny Nastor: Excellent. ScottOldford.com and INFINITUS Marketing — I’ll put links to both on the show notes for you. It will take you there, and to your podcast, because I recommend them to everyone.

Scott Oldford: Awesome.

Jonny Nastor: Scott, thank you so much. Please keep doing what you’re doing, because it’s awesome to watch. Good luck out there, man.

Scott Oldford: All right, Jon. Talk to you soon.

Jonny Nastor: Hack the Entrepreneur is brought to you by Authority Rainmaker, a carefully designed live educational experience that presents a complete and effective online marketing strategy to help you immediately accelerate your business. Do not miss the opportunity to meet two punk rock legends, Henry Rollins and me, Jon Nastor.

Well, one punk legend and a whole bunch of other incredible speakers, but it’s going to be a lot of fun, and I would love to meet you there. You can get all the details right now at Rainmaker.FM/MeetJon. I would love to see you there in May, and it’s going to be an epic, epic conference.

Scott, thank you so much for joining me today. You said a lot of smart things, a lot of smart things, but you said one thing.

Didn’t he? He did. Did you get it? Did you hear it? Let’s do it. Let’s find the hack.

Scott Oldford: Find your level of genius, and find that 5% that you offer, that 5% of genius that you offer, and get rid of everything else, because typically, 100% of the things that we do, only 95% of them are replaceable.

Jonny Nastor: That’s the hack.

Scott, yes, exactly. Find your level of genius. I love that. I love the way he says it, and it’s so true. We all have a level of genius, and it’s not in everything. It’s not in most things. It’s usually not even in some things. It’s in one or two things, and you have to look inwards at yourself and find what that is that you do.

Scott can connect. Scott knows how to get people to have dinner and then talk business, and whether he gets business out of that or not or other people do, he’s part of that connection. That’s amazing for his business and what he does. That’s truly powerful and something that we do have to find, what our level of genius is and what it is that we do that can provide value to our customers and to our audience. I love it. Just find your genius, that 5%.

Obviously, at the beginning when you are just starting out, you can’t outsource or get rid of 95% of the other things, but consciously, know that those things do at some point need to be taken off your plate and done by somebody else, and you need to focus on your genius and what makes you who you are and what makes you a value to the people that you are out there serving.

Thank you so much, Scott. That is just awesome. I love it.

HackTheEntrepreneur.com has finally received its face-lift. It is an amazing design that has been done, and I am so happy about it, and I would love if you checked it out. HackTheEntrepreneur.com is the place.

At the top there, you’re going to see a spot to drop your email in and get the email from me once a week. Every Sunday afternoon, I am writing some of my best work, and I would love to have you on the list to receive that. You can hit “reply” to any of the emails, including the welcome one, and you can reach me. That’s direct contact to me and my inbox, so please use it at your will.

Check it out. HackTheEntrepreneur.com. I have been excited about this for a couple months, and I’ve been talking about it. We are finally live, so check that out, and that’s it.

It’s been a great show. I thank Scott, and I thank you so much for joining me. I know you have a lot of options out there, and I appreciate you taking the time to spend it with me here today.

Until next time, please, keep hacking the entrepreneur.