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Answers to the 3 Biggest Email Marketing Questions We Get

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Previous Episode:How to Newsjack Your Way to Free Media Exposure with David Meerman Scott More Episodes Next Episode:Whether You Call it Blogging or Not, Online Content Still Rules

All Episodes:

March 30, 2020

The Advantage of Email Marketing, Featuring Nathan Barry of ConvertKit

March 15, 2020

How to Write Content That Resonates

March 9, 2020

How to Conquer Your Fear of Selling, with Leah Neaderthal

March 2, 2020

How to Build Remarkable Products to Grow Your Business, with Ramit Sethi

February 17, 2020

What You Should Talk about on Your Podcast, with Tara McMullin

February 9, 2020

How to Win at Search in 2020

February 3, 2020

How to Turn Pro as a Freelance Writer

January 27, 2020

Marketing Segmentation and Personalization with Brennan Dunn of RightMessage

January 20, 2020

Podcasting Still Matters, with Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income

January 13, 2020

The New Look Copyblogger in 2020

January 8, 2020

New Year, New Copyblogger

October 23, 2019

The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur with John Jantsch

October 2, 2019

Consistency Will Take You Further

September 25, 2019

The Past, Present, and Future of Online Learning

September 16, 2019

How to Get More of the Right Things Done

September 9, 2019

Why the Future Is Still Email

September 3, 2019

What’s Next for
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August 26, 2019

How Smart, Nimble Companies Are Using Webinars Today

August 19, 2019

The Clarity Method: A Conversation with Tim Brownson

August 12, 2019

Digital Business Trends and the Latest on the Rainmaker Platform

August 5, 2019

4 ‘Naive’ Business Principles for Enduring Success

July 8, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion

July 1, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written

June 24, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research

June 17, 2019

3 Almost Magical Headline Ingredients for More Traffic, Engagement, and Shares

June 10, 2019

Lessons Any Business Can Learn from an Impressive Influencer Marketing Fail

June 3, 2019

13 Ways of Looking at a Headline

May 27, 2019

The 7 ‘Bad’ Habits of Incredibly Successful People

May 20, 2019

Writers: How to Move from Making a Living to Driving Revenue

May 13, 2019

Choose the Right Frame to Boost the Power of Your Content

May 6, 2019

How Copywriting Teacher Belinda Weaver Reenergized Her Email List for Massive Engagement

April 29, 2019

3 Reasons Why Really Good Writers Sometimes Can’t Find Great Clients

April 22, 2019

3 Slightly Embarrassing Emotions that Drive Effective Copywriting

April 15, 2019

Get 10 Content Marketing Boosters in 20 Minutes

April 8, 2019

Becoming the ‘Chief Empathy Officer’ of Your Copy and Content

April 1, 2019

One of the Most Important Marketing Decisions You’ll Ever Make

March 18, 2019

What Nobody Wants to Hear about Content Marketing

March 11, 2019

Getting Your Big, Scary Projects Finished: A Conversation about Growing Gills

March 4, 2019

When Is It Time to Bring in a Professional Copywriter?

February 25, 2019

Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase

February 18, 2019

Understanding the Lifecycles of Your Website, with Pamela Wilson

February 11, 2019

5 Ways to Manage a Stress-Induced Creative Slump

February 4, 2019

3 Ways Strategic Content Can Drive Measurable Business Outcomes

January 28, 2019

The Social Media Platform Every Content Creator Should Be Using in 2019 (Nope, It’s Not Facebook)

January 21, 2019

Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content

January 14, 2019

A Conversation with Paul Jarvis about Staying a ‘Company of One’

October 29, 2018

The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion

October 22, 2018

5 Essential Copywriting Techniques from Copyblogger

October 15, 2018

5 Ways to Recover Your Professional and Creative Confidence

October 8, 2018

5 Stinky Sardine Secrets to Make Your Content More Fascinating

September 24, 2018

The Mindset ‘Hack’ that Frees Your Creativity and Makes You Happier

September 18, 2018

How to Kill Your Sales and Mess up Your Business: Lessons from a Used Car Salesman

September 4, 2018

The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living

August 27, 2018

Are You Making These Social Media Marketing Mistakes?

August 20, 2018

Fix These 7 About Page Mistakes for More Traffic and (Possibly) Better SEO

August 13, 2018

7 Ways to Boost Your Creativity

August 6, 2018

A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site

July 30, 2018

The 3 Keys to Publishing Strong Content … Even If You Aren’t a ‘Great’ Writer (Yet)

July 23, 2018

Fix These 3 Points of Failure to Get Better Results for Your Content

July 16, 2018

Big Changes at ConvertKit: A Discussion with Founder Nathan Barry

July 9, 2018

3 Skills to Master to Become a Marketing Badass this Year

June 18, 2018

The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy

June 11, 2018

5 Rules of Thumb to Relieve SEO-Induced Stress

June 4, 2018

How to Use the GDPR to Make Your Business Stronger than Ever

May 14, 2018

‘Good Karma’ Selling that Works: A Conversation with Tim Paige

April 30, 2018

How to Get More Comfortable (and Effective) at Selling

April 23, 2018

Privacy and Permission in the Wake of Cambridge Analytica

April 16, 2018

Seth Godin and How to Create Change

April 9, 2018

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March 26, 2018

The Double-Edged Sword that Can Make (or Break) Your Content

March 19, 2018

Make More Progress by Getting (Gently) Out of Your Comfort Zone

March 12, 2018

Are You Doing Content Marketing Wrong?

March 5, 2018

Storytelling for Modern Content Marketing (Part 2 of 2)

February 26, 2018

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February 19, 2018

10 Quality Factors Search Engines Need to See on Your Site

February 12, 2018

A Simple Content Strategy to Make Your Site Massively More Useful

February 5, 2018

How to Avoid a Heartbreaking Business Failure

January 29, 2018

Hey Writers: Let’s Get You Paid What You’re Worth

January 15, 2018

5 Keys to Making Your Content More Shareable

December 18, 2017

3 Observations on Trends (but not Predictions) for 2018

December 11, 2017

3 Tips Now to Build a Strong Foundation in 2018

December 4, 2017

The 3 Success Factors that Help Writers Earn a Great Living

November 27, 2017

How to Recognize a Great Content Idea

November 20, 2017

How to Cultivate a More Meaningful Gratitude Practice

November 13, 2017

Advice for Poets, Advice for Killers

October 30, 2017

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October 23, 2017

How to Make Smarter Decisions about Your Website

October 2, 2017

A Series of Unfortunate Content Events

September 18, 2017

The Evolution of a Successful Copywriter

August 28, 2017

7 Ways to Improve Your Marketing by Harnessing the Power of Evil

August 14, 2017

Smart Questions from our Brilliant Audience

August 7, 2017

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July 31, 2017

How to Write (Much Better) Blog Comments

July 17, 2017

Which Works Better: Positive or Negative Content?

July 10, 2017

How to Attract the Exact Customers You Want

July 3, 2017

How to Create Stability and Success as an Artist

June 19, 2017

Two Powerful Resources for Life-Changing Growth

June 12, 2017

How to Turn All that Marketing Advice into Action

June 5, 2017

How to Develop a Compelling Marketing Idea in 4 Steps

May 30, 2017

Getting Over the Fear of Selling

May 22, 2017

Talking Community and Digital Business with Tara Gentile

May 15, 2017

Plagiarism, Self-Deception, Bad Sandwiches, and Other Interesting Disasters

May 1, 2017

Professional Writers: Find Out How to Get Certified by Copyblogger

April 17, 2017

The Painful Core Lesson Taught by 3 Astonishing Big-Brand Fails

April 3, 2017

5 Mindset Habits that Actually Work

March 27, 2017

On Grammar, Usage, and Not Being a Great Big Jerk

March 20, 2017

Creative Strategies for Content Writers

March 13, 2017

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February 13, 2017

Politics, Content Marketing, and the 2017 Super Bowl Ads

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Copyblogger Book Club: Winning the Story Wars

January 23, 2017

3 Content Marketing Strategy Fails (and How to Fix Them)

January 9, 2017

The 2017 Content Excellence Challenge: Your January Assignments

December 19, 2016

Bad Writing Advice: The ‘Post Truth’ Episode

December 12, 2016

Get Ready Now for a Creative and Productive 2017

December 5, 2016

The 4 Pillars Every Online Business Is Built On

November 28, 2016

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November 14, 2016

Have You Already Missed the Podcasting Gold Rush?

November 7, 2016

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October 31, 2016

5 Quick Wins for Content Marketers

October 24, 2016

Announcing: An Intriguing New Tool for Collaborative Content

October 17, 2016

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October 10, 2016

Behind the Scenes at Copyblogger: Our New Email Approach

October 3, 2016

The ‘Obligatory’ Structure of Effective Content

September 26, 2016

7 Powerful Content Strategies Borrowed from Advertising Masters

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September 8, 2016

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September 1, 2016

3 Questions that Can Haunt Creative Professionals

August 25, 2016

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August 18, 2016

How to Give and Get Exceptional Testimonials, Part One

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August 4, 2016

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July 28, 2016

The One-Two Punch that Creates the Most Successful Copywriters

July 21, 2016

Pokémon Go: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

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July 7, 2016

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June 9, 2016

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June 2, 2016

A Process for Content Marketing Success

May 26, 2016

Content Marketing Best Practices: Getting Email Opt-Ins

May 19, 2016

Behind the Scenes: Adventures in Advertising

May 12, 2016

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May 5, 2016

Sally Hogshead and the Art of Fascination

April 28, 2016

Behind the Scenes at the Rainmaker Digital Company Meeting!

April 14, 2016

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April 7, 2016

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March 31, 2016

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March 24, 2016

Behind the Scenes: An Inside Look at the Rainmaker FM Redesign

March 17, 2016

Our Latest Advice and Resources for Digital Business Owners

March 10, 2016

Should Content Publishers Adopt Google’s New AMP?

March 3, 2016

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February 25, 2016

Content Marketing Shout-Out: Orbit Media and Andy Crestodina

February 18, 2016

The Tactic You Should Steal from Copyblogger

February 11, 2016

Content Marketing News for February, 2016

February 4, 2016

Email Marketing: The Misunderstood Powerhouse

January 28, 2016

The Secret Weapon Behind Great Websites: The Role of the Content Editor

January 21, 2016

Behind the Scenes: The Relaunch and Re-Imagining of Copyblogger.com

January 14, 2016

Trends and Predictions for Digital Commerce: A Conversation with Brian Clark

January 7, 2016

2016 Content Marketing Resolutions

December 28, 2015

The End of The Lede, The Beginning of Copyblogger FM

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October 20, 2015

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September 29, 2015

Revisiting Authenticity: What It Is, What It’s Not, and Why It Matters

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September 8, 2015

Finally — A Podcast about the Superiority of Written Content

September 1, 2015

Hot Seat: Grilling Jerod on Using Audio Content to Seed a Content Arsenal

August 25, 2015

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5 Stories That Explain Jerod Morris (Plus One Massive Marketing Lesson)

August 11, 2015

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August 4, 2015

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July 21, 2015

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July 14, 2015

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July 7, 2015

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June 30, 2015

Why The Phrase ‘Leaders Are Readers’ Should Die

June 23, 2015

Why You Should Think Outside the Box About Online Courses

June 16, 2015

The Proper (and Safe) Way to Republish Old Articles

June 9, 2015

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May 27, 2015

Rapid-Fire Takeaways from Authority Rainmaker

May 19, 2015

The Proper Way to Grow an Audience on Medium

May 12, 2015

The Introvert’s Guide to Launching a Successful Podcast

May 5, 2015

The One Quality All Popular Podcasts Share

April 28, 2015

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April 21, 2015

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April 14, 2015

Choose Yourself Part 2: James Altucher Fights Back

April 7, 2015

Should We Fear Content Shock? (Or Could It Actually Be a Good Thing?)

March 31, 2015

Should You Really ‘Walk in the Direction of Your Fear’?

March 24, 2015

Is ‘Choose Yourself’ Good Advice … or New-Age Phooey?

March 17, 2015

Is Authority Earned or Bestowed?

March 3, 2015

Dan Pink on How to Succeed in the New Era of Selling

February 24, 2015

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February 17, 2015

Sally Hogshead on How You Can Unlock Your Natural Ability to Fascinate

February 10, 2015

How to Learn from Your Successes

January 27, 2015

How to Learn From Your Mistakes

January 13, 2015

Lessons Learned from Conducting Two Monster Audience Surveys

December 16, 2014

Adaptive Content: A Trend to Pay Attention to in 2015

December 2, 2014

The Most Important Lessons You Should Have Learned in 2014

November 18, 2014

How We Built Our Careers Online (And What You Can Learn From It)

November 4, 2014

Interview with Brian Clark: How Customer Experience Maps Help You Develop a Smarter Content Strategy

October 21, 2014

How Empathy Maps Help You Speak Directly to the Hearts of Your Audience

October 7, 2014

How to Ignite a Feeling in Your Audience

September 23, 2014

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June 26, 2014

How to Curate Knowledge, Turn it Into Wisdom, and Build Your Audience

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The 5 W’s of Link Curation

June 6, 2014

Why You Should Curate Content (And How to Do It Right)

May 30, 2014

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May 23, 2014

The 2 Reasons People Don’t Click on Your Buttons … And How to Overcome Them

May 16, 2014

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How to Close With Style

April 25, 2014

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April 11, 2014

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April 4, 2014

How to Use Internal Cliffhangers

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Hangout Hot Seat with Brian Clark

March 21, 2014

How to Tell a Seductive Story

March 14, 2014

How to Create Exquisite Subheads

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How to Write Killer Bullet Points

February 28, 2014

How to Write Damn Good Sentences

February 21, 2014

How to Use Persuasive Words

February 14, 2014

Michael Stelzner on Capturing Emails and Committing to Quality

February 7, 2014

How to Nail Your Opening

January 24, 2014

How to Write a Magnetic Headline (in Under 15 Minutes)

May 18, 2012

Seth Godin on When You Should Start Marketing Your Product, Service, or Idea

May 11, 2012

How to Attract an Audience by Integrating Content, Social, and Search

March 30, 2012

Why You Should Build an Audience Before You Build a Business

March 16, 2012

How Chris Brogan Built His Content Platform

March 9, 2012

Jay Baer on How to Turn Interested Prospects into Lifelong Customers

March 2, 2012

A 30-Minute Copywriting Course from a Master of the Craft

February 24, 2012

The Path to a Legendary Copywriting Career

February 17, 2012

5 Tips for Affiliate Marketing Beginners

February 10, 2012

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February 3, 2012

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January 27, 2012

Answers to the 3 Biggest Email Marketing Questions We Get

January 20, 2012

How to Newsjack Your Way to Free Media Exposure with David Meerman Scott

January 13, 2012

Steven Pressfield and the War of Work

November 18, 2011

The Strategy Behind the Copyblogger Redesign

November 11, 2011

7 Ways to Create an Email Marketing "Snowball Effect"

November 4, 2011

Warning: If You're Not a Privacy Nut, You're Losing Sales

October 28, 2011

The 3 Kinds of Writing That Builds a Business

October 21, 2011

The Art of Seductive Writing: A Conversation with Robert Greene

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Why Content Marketing Doesn't Suck

September 30, 2011

Are You Weird Enough to Succeed at Content Marketing?

September 23, 2011

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September 16, 2011

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Seth Godin on Blogging, Business Books, and Creating Content that Matters

September 2, 2011

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Answered: Your Most Burning Content Marketing Questions

June 3, 2011

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April 22, 2011

The Art of Enchanting Online Marketing with Guy Kawasaki

April 15, 2011

The Market for Something to Believe in is Infinite: An Interview with Hugh MacLeod

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How to Constantly Create Compelling Content

March 25, 2011

The Content Marketing Question You Need to Answer … Now

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March 4, 2011

Did Social Media Kill the Marketing Star?

February 25, 2011

How to Write (and Execute) a Simple but Powerful Business Plan

February 17, 2011

How to Kick Groupon to the Curb and Become a Local Hero

February 3, 2011

Convert … Or Die

January 27, 2011

Attention: Is Your Headline Getting Any?

January 20, 2011

How to Craft Landing Pages that Work

January 13, 2011

Why Every Smart Business is in the Media Business

January 5, 2011

2011 Content Marketing Predictions

December 15, 2010

Tim Ferriss on How to Reinvent Yourself with Blog Marketing

December 8, 2010

The 6 Elements of an Influential Web Experience

December 1, 2010

Your Staggeringly Unfair Marketing Advantage

November 17, 2010

How to Get Some Action

November 10, 2010

The Foundation of All Marketing that Works

November 3, 2010

Introducing Copyblogger Radio

January 27, 2012

Answers to the 3 Biggest Email Marketing Questions We Get

I asked two pros to come on and spill their best advice on the three biggest email marketing questions we get here at Copyblogger.

DJ Waldow joins me and Sonia Simone to discuss:

  • The best way to build an email list
  • The 2 reasons why people open an email
  • The most important element of an email that sells
  • How to write emails that get opened
  • How to stay out of your reader’s spam filters
  • Sonia’s secret weapon of email marketing that works

This one’s fast and useful, so keep your ears on …

Hit the flash player below to listen now:

Answers to the 3 Biggest Email Marketing Questions We GetRobert Bruce
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The Transcript

Please note that this transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and grammar.

________________

Robert Bruce: This is Internet Marketing for Smart People Radio, I am Robert Bruce and we are talking email marketing on the show today. Specifically we’ll be handing you six solid tips on three big questions from two distinguished guests. If you’re into email, stick around. Joining me is Sonia Simone chief marketing officer of Copyblogger Media and DJ Waldow founder and CEO of Waldow Social — Sonia how are you doing today?

Sonia Simone: I am bursting with enthusiasm, is how I am today.

Robert Bruce: Sounds like it – I’m glad to have you on today. DJ thanks for coming on, too. Are you ready to talk email?

DJ Waldow: I’m always ready to talk email, as my bio often says I eat, breathe dream, sleep, and daydream email. So I’m ready to go and I’m excited to be part of this where I would now call this, the six three two right?

Robert Bruce: The six three two show, right. And Sonia is obviously from the sound of her voice a tornado over there. A veritable hurricane of energy and wisdom, so watch yourself, DJ, is my advice for you.

Sonia Simone: I’m just excited because DJ may be a bigger dork about email than I am, which is like beyond my wildest dreams. I’m so excited. So DJ it’s super to have you.

DJ Waldow: I take that as a compliment, Sonia.

Sonia Simone: No, you should!

DJ Waldow: I like that.

Robert Bruce: Alright, so I have got three big email marketing questions that we get over and over and over here at Copyblogger. And I’m going to ask that you guys give me your top tips for each of these three questions. The very best you’ve got. This is kind of like a game show, kind of has the game show feel to it. But, we’ll keep it simple. Sonia you’re up first. What are your top tips for writing an email that actually gets opened?

How to write emails that get opened

Sonia Simone: My top tip for getting an email – writing an email that actually gets opened is – we open mail form people we know. We file mail that we get from companies, so I have a folder in my Gmail and probably other people have this – it’s called something like shopping, because I’m one of those people that’s addicted to online shopping. And it’s got like a thousand unread messages in it. I just sort of throw them in there and if I want to look for something on sale I go in there.

Email, I get from a handful of people running a business who are sending email that feels like it’s from someone I know – those I read. And so my top tip is – create a personal identity; write from a personal identity, so it feels like email from a person, not a company. It’s about voice, it’s about writing an email that doesn’t look like an ad, it looks like an email somebody cool would send you about something you’re interested in. As opposed to a coupon – there’s nothing wrong with coupons or other commercial things but as soon as it looks and smells like an ad people treat it like an ad and that does not put it at the top of their “to-open” list.

Robert Bruce: DJ, what’s your top tip for writing an email that actually gets opened?

DJ Waldow: I want to be clear – we’re going back and forth so I get to take the lead on the next question, right? Cause Sonia of course –

Sonia Simone: Stole your answer? Sorry.

The two reasons people open an email

DJ Waldow: Stole my answer, and this is proof that we did not plan exactly or share our secrets up front. I think Sonia’s first one is – I’m actually going to build on that a little bit. I’m a big believer that people open- and forget being an internet marketer for a second, think of yourself as Sonia just described, as a consumer of email. People open email based really on two factors and two factors alone. Who it’s from and what the subject line is.

And if you think about this – that makes a lot of sense, because it’s the only way you actually look at your inbox unless you’ve got this big old preview pane, it’s all you really see, who it’s from and what it says, and what the subject line says. Really building on what Sonia said – that from name, who the email is from is oh so critical.

And so, I’ll give you an example of – let’s talk about Copyblogger for example – Copyblogger can send an email from Copyblogger or from Sonia or from Brian or from a handful of other people there, and you’re going to get a different response based on who the email is from.

And I’m not making a judgment on Brian or Sonia or anything like that. What I mean is – Copyblogger is a trusted brand. It is a well known name. I know when I get an email from Copyblogger what to expect and I trust it.

That’s much different than getting an email from a person and so I always find it interesting when brands toy with that, and I think — hopefully they’re testing it, trying this idea of — is it from the brand name or the company name or the person or a combination of the two? Because I think what’s really, really critical is – if I get an email from somebody I recognize and trust I’m that much more likely to open it than from a random person.

Sonia Simone: Yeah, absolutely. And I get emails from people I know are going to sell me something – like I get emails from Frank Kern. I always open emails from Frank Kern. I know it’s going to be a pitch from the first letter to the last punctuation mark. But I also know it’s going to be entertaining, I know it’s going to be interesting, I know it’s going to be funny.

And so, it’s not that you shouldn’t sell – it’s okay to sell, it’s okay to pitch, it depends what your audience is therefore. But be entertaining, be interesting, be a person — don’t be a stiff. Unless you have an awesome coupon. If you’re Groupon, you can do things a little differently because people are opening the mail to get the coupons. So it depends on what your audience is there for.

DJ Waldow: But Sonia, it’s an interesting point you bring up Groupon because I’ve had a lot of discussion about this recently. Groupon does something – Groupon actually proves my second point – a subject line that’s compelling because I’m guessing you, like me, don’t open every Groupon email.

You read the subject line – first you see it’s from Groupon and you say okay, I’ve purchased from them before, I trust them, I like them etc., etc., – hopefully. And then the second piece you say, well, it’s for a massage, well you know what, I’ve had four massages already this week, I probably shouldn’t buy another one. I’m going to go ahead and delete that email without even reading it.

Sonia Simone: Yeah.

DJ Waldow: Right. So the subject line in that case says – setting you up to either – it’s basically telling you what’s going to be in the email whether or not you’re going to open it or not.

Robert Bruce: Yeah, that’s good. DJ, let’s get into your second one here. The subject line – the headline you know essentially is what we’re talking about. How important is that to getting the email opened?

DJ Waldow: Well, I started by saying there’s two factors. The “from” name, and the subject line. They can be mutually exclusive. In other words – I cannot recognize the sender or not trust the sender necessarily and have just a totally amazing subject line that is compelling and I just have to open it. That’s one way. But I really do think the two of them combined are the absolutely the most powerful thing, a trusted sender and a compelling subject line.

But to me, it’s the subject line that gives me something – either like a Groupon, I know exactly what I’m going to get when I open it, or it leaves something to be desired. Something – you know – and the winner is dot, dot, dot. Or something where I’m going to – just like you would talk about in general copywriting- something that catches the reader’s attention because you know I’m scanning my inbox and I’m probably like most people in the morning I’m going on my phone and I go and scan and hit delete, delete, delete, and all of a sudden something jumps out at me, and I open it.

Robert Bruce: Same thing with a blog post, I mean if they don’t read your headline, they’re not reading you. Sonia, you want to close us out with your final tip on how to get our emails opened.

Sonia Simone: This one kind of underlies everything, which is don’t send people crap. If the message disappoints the reader when they open it, they’re not going to open the next one. So you don’t just want to write one email that gets opened. You actually want to write emails that get opened consistently.

So first of all don’t have misleading subject headers because A) it’s against the law, and B) it frustrates people and then they open it and they’re kind of disappointed and they have a little bad feeling in their stomach and they won’t open the next one. Actually have something worth reading when you open the email, is sort of the mega tip.

DJ Waldow: Quickly if I could just clarify one thing because I don’t want to imply that using something catchy or something to lead somebody in the email – I agree with Sonia -it is illegal and you don’t want to do anything misleading. I think I’m merely stating that you want to say something that gets them at least excited about opening the email, right?

Sonia Simone: Yeah

DJ Waldow: Without being misleading.

Robert Bruce: Yeah, I know. Thank you for that. We are definitely not in the hype business over here. Let’s move on to our second question. DJ this might be a bit of a shorter answer because this is a little of a technical thing – or can be, at least. How do we keep our emails that we’re sending out of spam filters?

How to stay out of your reader’s spam filters

DJ Waldow: Easy! Send timely, targeted, relevant, valuable emails to people who have asked for them.

Robert Bruce: Wait a minute, is that – one tip or is that like five tips?

DJ Waldow: That’s one long tip. But let me expand on that briefly.

Robert Bruce: Yeah, please.

DJ Waldow: I think – you know I actually got a really interesting email from a mutual colleague friend of ours – Chris Brogan – today. Apparently he had sent an email the day before that ended up in a bunch of peoples spam filters, and he apologized for it and he said – hey, I’m sorry you may want to dig it out of your spam filter. And he said, apparently the email gods don’t like the word free in the subject line.

Sonia will appreciate this as an email geek, I jumped all over that email and let Chris know that actually it’s not. It used to be the case that if you put “free” or used all caps in subject lines that those were going to get caught up in spam filters. It’s not really the case anymore. I mean, certainly some internet service providers or ISPs are marking emails as spam based on subject lines and content. But really, for the most part it has more to do now with reputation.

And I don’t mean reputation like – I was trying to think of a celebrity’s reputation but – I don’t mean that kind of reputation. I mean the reputation of the IP address that you’re sending from or the domain you’re sending from. In other words, if you are someone who is viewed by the ISPs as sending a lot of unsolicited mail or mail that people mark as spam often, your reputation as a domain or as an IP address that you’re sending from will go down.

That’s really more important than anything else, than what the content or the subject line reads to be. And I’ll pause on that for a second because I think Sonia probably has some thoughts on that as well.

Robert Bruce: Yeah, I know Sonia hates spam probably more than anybody I know. And hates to land in spam filters. But you do that the least of anybody I know as well. Sonia, what’s your tips for staying out of these spam filters.

Sonia’s secret to email marketing that works

Sonia Simone: I have a kind of a couple of tips. First of all, you know, everything DJ said. If you get marked as a spammer, then you can be sending people the collected wit and wisdom of Mother Teresa and you’re going to get in the spam filter because you’re a spammer. If you spam people then your reputation is going to suffer, or if it feels like you’re spamming people, if it feels like you’re violating the relationship the person thought they had when you’re signing up.

So be clear about, you know, if you’re selling and you’re a business, don’t try and pretend you’re not a business. Because again, you’re going to create an expectation mismatch, and that’s going to get you marked as a spammer which is going to be a problem. My kind of secret – it’s like so secret right, no one’s ever heard of this – my secret weapon – your readers really need to want to get your mail.

Because if they want it badly enough they will white list you, they will go find it in the spam filter, they will use a different email address. You know, there are some email addresses that are really hard to get into. AOL is hard; Earth Link I’ve always found can be tricky. And also a lot of the small business email addresses.

If you have a small company, hundred people or less, and they have an IT guy. That IT guy has that email server locked down so tight you can’t send in, you know, anything. Sometimes it’s not locked down in a very sophisticated way. Like “?oh, this is bulk email, I’ll throw it away.” You know, it was sent by a bulk sender.

If they really want what you’re sending, they find a way to get the email through.

So you put the burden on the person who’s reading, rather than trying to open a path up on your side. Now I totally believe in doing things to keep your email out of spam filters. I’m kind of increasingly leaning toward text emails rather than HTML, because I do find that I get more clicks, which suggests to me I’m getting more deliverability. It may just be that it looks more like, you know, email that people are used to getting.

The underlying principle for me is, if you give them a really good reason to sign up – like you have this really cool content – which by the way, if you build an autoresponder which is a sequence of emails, you can get a copywriter to create this astonishingly awesome autoresponder content for you. If writing is not your thing, if the content is good enough, if they want it badly enough, they will find a way to clear the path.

DJ Waldow: But, you know, it’s interesting when I first started email marketing I worked at Bronto, it was almost seven years ago now when I started, and I used to be more of that purist. You know, that person who said you have to do it this way. You can’t send text only messages with links here and there. That’s ugly and no one will ever open those or click. We all want these pretty HTML emails and – over the years I’ve matured – well, I should use that term loosely.

I think I’ve matured a little bit to now believe that, hey you can break some of those rules and actually find success. But I think it all goes back, Sonia, to your point; if you have that trust, if you have compelling content. You know we talk about blog posts a lot. You know, the makeup of a blog, and what it should look like and should it have this or two columns or three columns or one column.

Copyblogger, I’m sure you guys can appreciate this. Copy usually trumps all of that stuff. If you have good compelling content, it doesn’t matter as much what your emails looks like or if you have an HTML or text only. If you’re testing it and you’re finding that sending a more personalized email – shorter copy with a couple links of, click here, buy this now, join us for this webinar, and it’s working, then roll with that. That’s what I think. Roll with it.

Robert Bruce: I’ll tell you one thing that should be in everybody’s inbox. That is the Internet Marketing for Smart People email course, your online marketing course that we deliver straight to your email inbox. The short version of this is that it is the very best of Copyblogger wrapped up into twenty emails that Sonia has put together. Extremely readable, extremely useful. Those emails are dripped out to you about once a week.

And when you sign up for this course you’re getting over six years of Copyblogger teaching, tactics and wisdom kind of wrapped up into one place. To get this – it’s totally free – if you want in, you just head over to Copyblogger.com, scroll down a little bit to about the middle of the home page and you’ll see the headline, “Grab our free twenty-part internet marketing course”. All you have to do is drop your email address into the little box there and we will take care of the rest.

Okay, we have saved the mother of all email marketing questions for last you guys. This is the one that everyone wants to know all the time. Sonia, what’s your tip for how to build an email list.

The best way to build an email list

Sonia Simone: This is sort of a gigantic question so I’m just going to be tactical and short. The good answer to this used to be a pop up form. So you have a blog and there was a little pop up that pops up and says, hey you want to sign up for the email list, which I loathe and detest, and we could never stomach putting them on our blog. But they would very often double or triple sign up or more. So, you know we always knew we were leaving some readers on the table there.

There’s a new kind of a mini trend. The first time I saw it was over at Derek Halpern’s blog, Social Triggers, which is to make the sign up box for your email list, like ridiculously prominent. So he put it in the middle of the screen, not off to the side. It’s not in the side bar, so mobile readers will see it. It’s so big, it feels a little weird.

You know, it’s like wow, that’s really giant. But what you’re doing is asking for the email sign up in a way that can’t be missed, but you’re not popping up on the screen and getting in the way when people are trying to read, and so it’s sort of a hybrid. Chris Brogan tried it over at his blog and, instantly saw a really pretty remarkable increase in the number of email sign ups. We implemented it on our home page, Copyblogger.com, we instantly, I mean within the hour started to see a sharp increase in sign ups.

Again, getting to that double or triple rate. So, that’s kind of my latest trendy way to do it. Over at Studio Press we actually created a whole WordPress theme that bakes that in called Generate, and it just puts the sign up box – when you first look at it you feel like, wow that’s intense. Like there’s this huge thing in the middle of the screen. But, it’s a good compromise between irritating people with a pop up, but also making sure that you’ve put the opportunity in front of them, because a lot of people that like your content and want to sign up to hear more about what you have to say, they just didn’t see it.

Robert Bruce: I should apologize because this is way too big of a question for a tip so thank you Sonia, that was incredibly useful. And of course, what we’re talking about for people just kind of just joining us and maybe just kind of coming into this conversation for the first time. This is on top of a whole strategy of content creation, building trust, building authority with an audience, you know, through the open web, on your website that you own .

But what you’re saying, in relation to that, Sonia, is basically is that you’re making a conscious choice about the most valuable real estate on your website. Is a big part of this, right?

Sonia Simone: Right, you’re putting it front and center. And frankly, I’d rather see you do that, than have some kind of admittedly nice looking graphic header for your business that says absolutely nothing about what you do and does nothing to build your business.

Robert Bruce: That’s great, yup. DJ?

DJ Waldow: So Robert I thought once again that when you were apologizing I thought you were going to apologize for having Sonia go first – and once again.

Robert Bruce: Why would I do that DJ? It’s worked out well so far.

The importance of social proof and WIFM

DJ Waldow: Stealing! Stealing my idea. Exactly right, it’s so funny that you mention Derek’s blog. You know, I thought of the same one and how he makes it very, very prominent. I actually think you guys at Copyblogger do a really nice job also. I mean I know it’s part way down, you scroll a little bit, but there’s a big old sign up box there.

And to build on what Sonia said. I think it’s also important to do two things within that sign up box. It’s not just asking people to sign up and making it obvious, and clear and easy. But there’s two pieces to this – I’m looking to the Copyblogger site right now. There’s a little bit of the social proof there. So, you have “join over 63,000 smart people today.” Well, I’m saying to myself, 63,000 thousand people, what the heck am I missing, why am I not one of those people?

Sonia Simone: Yeah.

DJ Waldow: So, there is the social proof, and there’s a reason to sign up. And you all do this, and Derrick does this on Social Triggers also, but you tell me why I should sign up. Not just an email box and say please sign up for free updates – what’s in it for me? The WIFM. What am I going to get? What can I expect? So that’s the first one.

And the second one that builds into this too is – again Copyblogger does this – I’m looking at another site right now. Chris Garrett’s Chrisg.com. This is another trend I’m seeing more and more, putting some kind of incentive. So, again.

Copyblogger, you guys do it where you say, get this 20 part series. Chris Garrett is giving away two eBooks, in order to get an email address. He’s also making it very, very prominent on the site. But tell me what’s in it for me. What am I going to get? Why should I give you my email address?

Sonia Simone: Absolutely. And I will add – that’s a really good point. You know, the language we use on Copyblogger is, “here’s what we’ve got for you.” And that’s a good way to think about it. You might use that language yourself, you might not. But you know, what do you have for the people, what do they get out of it? Hint: it can’t just be access to your ads.

That’s not very interesting. But yeah, focus on the benefits. Make sure people understand what they’ve got for you. There has to be some reason they’re giving you this email address. We ask for people’s time and attention, like somehow that’s less valuable than asking for their money. We have it totally backwards. I can’t make any more time than I have.

If I give you five minutes, and your content is lousy, it’s five minutes I can’t earn back where I suppose, you know if I buy a five dollar sandwich and it sucks, it’s like let’s just make five more dollars, it’s not really a big deal. So think about what you’re asking for when you’re asking somebody for their time and attention. It’s a pretty big deal. You need to be able to deliver on your side.

Robert Bruce: Alright guys, let’s get out of here, let’s wrap this thing up. Sonia, thank you so much. DJ Waldow, where can people find you out there on the web.

DJ Waldow: I have the blessing and the curse of having a unique name like DJ Waldow. So, I’ve wrapped up every single handle that is DJ Waldow, so you can find me on Twitter, on Facebook, on LinkedIn. You can go to Waldowsocial.com , you can go to my personal blog Social Butterfly Guy, and if you can’t find me by going to Google, there’s another DJ Waldow out there impersonating me.

Robert Bruce: Well thanks for listening everybody. As always if this show has done something to you, or for you, we would love it if you got over to iTunes and left a comment or a rating there.

That is one way that kind of spreads the word what we’re doing on this little radio show. We’d really appreciate it. And, Sonia, DJ, thanks a ton for your expertise today. We will be back.

Sonia Simone: Awesome, Robert. Thank you.

DJ Waldow: Thanks, Robert.

Other listening options:

  • Click here to download the mp3 | 29.5 MB | 24:31
  • Click here to subscribe via iTunes
  • Click here for the RSS feed (non iTunes)
  • Click here for the show archive

The Show Notes:

  • Internet Marketing for Smart People Course (free)
  • Email Marketing 101
  • We left the building with Girl Talk …

About the Author: Robert Bruce is Copyblogger Media’s Chief Copywriter and Resident Recluse.

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Comments

  1. Susanne Myers says

    January 27, 2012 at 8:42 AM

    Love the tips on how to get an email opened. My top tip is to keep a swipe file of emails that have gotten your attention and that you opened right away. Those are the types of subject lines you want to model your own versions after.

    Reply
    • DJ Waldow says

      January 27, 2012 at 1:03 PM

      LOVE THIS. Thanks for adding.

      Reply
  2. MoneyforCollegePro says

    January 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM

    Never fail to learn something from these podcasts. Thanks!

    Reply
  3. @Rhuarhii says

    January 27, 2012 at 9:48 AM

    @Susanne Myers has it spot on… Note the subject lines that grabbed you caused you to open. The next challenge is to get your prospect to click the link which is your real objective…

    Reply
  4. Deborah says

    January 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

    Is there a transcript of the podcast? Or did I miss it?

    Reply
    • Sonia Simone says

      January 27, 2012 at 10:51 AM

      Let me check to see if we’re still doing them. They do take time to prepare, so they’re not available for the day the show releases.

      Reply
  5. Bill Harrison says

    January 27, 2012 at 11:18 AM

    The question you didn’t answer: Why don’t otherwise professional copywriters use good grammar?

    You said, “DJ Waldow joins Sonia Simone and I to discuss…”

    Ugh!

    ‘Makes your teeth ache.

    Reply
    • Hashim Warren says

      January 27, 2012 at 12:10 PM

      I didn’t notice the mistake and I still clicked “play”. Looks like good copywriting to me. 🙂

      Reply
    • DJ Waldow says

      January 27, 2012 at 1:02 PM

      Mistakes happen. We’re all human!

      Reply
    • Brian Clark says

      January 27, 2012 at 1:37 PM

      Fixed. You have to understand, Robert is rarely sober. Give the guy a break. 😉

      Reply
      • DJ Waldow says

        January 27, 2012 at 1:58 PM

        And that explains it all. Ha!

        Reply
  6. DJ Waldow says

    January 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM

    What a fun podcast to be a part of! Thanks to Robert and Sonia.

    When is the next one? (serious question)

    Reply
  7. Alex Taylor says

    January 27, 2012 at 1:08 PM

    Sensational content. Really. Keeps me honest with my own content. This also reinforced my plan to switch a couple of my blogs over to the Generate theme, which I know I’ll feel a lot better about than traditional popups.

    Reply
  8. Johnn Four says

    January 27, 2012 at 1:50 PM

    In the Generate theme, it looks like the newsletter signup header is just on the home page.

    What do you think having it as your header on every page?

    Also, have you ever spotted or experienced an effective signup referral program? The ones I’ve seen ask you to surrender the emails of one or more victims to get a bonus of some kind.

    Right now, I just ask subscribers to forward to a friend in my siggn-off each email. There must be better ways of handling referrals and incentives?

    Reply
  9. Alex R. says

    January 27, 2012 at 4:27 PM

    Great podcast thanks for sharing! Always love getting useful and informative information and learning something new everyday!

    Reply
  10. Liz says

    January 27, 2012 at 4:58 PM

    Okay fine, I’ll start building an email list. I’ve been putting it off for years (I know, I know), but I’m finally going to do it, mostly because this episode gave me some really great ideas. Thank you, guys!

    Quick question: I know services like Constant Contact and AWeber have contracts in place that lower your chances of being blacklisted, and was wondering whether you knew if MailChimp has anything similar, or if it’s worth spending the extra money with one of the big guys.

    Reply
    • Brian Clark says

      January 27, 2012 at 5:20 PM

      MailChimp has similar agreements. We use Mailchimp for our customer lists and Aweber for everything else. Either will treat you well.

      Reply
      • Liz says

        January 27, 2012 at 5:21 PM

        Perfect, thank you! Running off to get started now!

        Reply
        • DJ Waldow says

          January 30, 2012 at 11:01 AM

          Liz –

          Just want to clarify something re: “lower your chances of being blacklisted” …

          Most (nearly all, actually) Email Service Providers will work with your to lower your chances of being blacklisted. However, the best way to lower your chances? Send email to people who have opted in. Set proper expectations upfront. Deliver killer content. One of the things most ESPs do automatically remove bad email addresses after one or two deliveries. This ensures that you will be sending to valid email addresses, thus increasing your chances of email getting delivered. Does that make sense?

          Happy to explain more!

          Reply
  11. Sercan Yıldız says

    January 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM

    Thanks for the explanation

    Reply
  12. Adam Wahlberg says

    January 30, 2012 at 12:01 AM

    Hey Brian, Robert, Sonia, DJ, et al,

    Great podcast! You’ve really coerced me to put my own email marketing campaign under the microscope.

    Quick question: I’ve found that only a third of those who opt-in at my website actually open the confirmation email. What advice would you have to increase that statistic?

    Reply
    • DJ Waldow says

      January 30, 2012 at 11:04 AM

      Thanks, Adam. Appreciate that!

      To be clear, you are sending a double opt-in email, right? Is your confirmation email asking them to click a link to actually be opted in? If so, why not try single opt-in with a “thank you” email instead of making them take an action?

      The #1 problem with a double opt-in process is that you are now asking someone who said yes (opted in) to now take another action. That email can get marked as spam, can be undelivered for some reason, ignored, etc.

      My advice: Try single opt-in with a thank you email!

      Reply
      • Adam Wahlberg says

        January 30, 2012 at 12:06 PM

        Thanks DJ, I appreciate the advice of a seasoned vet like yourself. I’ll implement the single opt-in and see what happens. 🙂

        Reply
        • DJ Waldow says

          January 30, 2012 at 12:45 PM

          If/when you do, please share the results! Love to write about it…

          Reply
  13. Diane Dolinsky-Pickar says

    January 30, 2012 at 1:34 AM

    ‘Twas a really helpful podcast, but the one point which most astounded me was the idea to put a huge, in-your-face sign up button on your blog. Now, I have not tried that simply because my target market is a big squeamish with everything online, and I am not even sure how often they pull down the elevator. But it would be very interesting to test it for a week or two, and observe. Inasmuch as you all were the guinea pigs yourselves, along with Chris Brogan, I would believe it works for you. But I am still a wee bit hesitant because I am catering to the over 40 crowd, not folks hwo know much about internet marketing or even the web in general! On the other hand, I can laugh to think if I make it a big huge button, everyone in my market could read it easily (even without glasses)!

    Reply
    • DJ Waldow says

      January 30, 2012 at 11:05 AM

      Diane –

      Certainly worth testing, right? And if you can save potential subscribers from having to get up to grab their reading glasses … even better! Ha ha.

      Reply
  14. iPyxel Creations says

    February 5, 2012 at 12:46 AM

    Sonia is the bomb! Tips about being personal and emailing from a human perspective instead of a more corporate perspective is simple but really right on the money. But the short answer to building an email list is such a golden nugget. She didn’t try to cover it broadly but gave a very specific tip that can be immediately implemented. I am going to literally take that idea and implement for my homepage. She called out my homepage slider for providing no value lol.

    -Tom

    Reply
  15. Nick says

    April 22, 2015 at 12:13 PM

    So we have two associates who have build their own personal list, (linkedin, their emails, etc.) and worked independently before coming together and starting a business under a new name. Can the two associates combine their list and send email marketing content to their people? (they simply don’t want to have to send the same content over and over again manually and want a solution to do it for them)

    Reply

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