Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You ByWP Engine

Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting.

Start getting more from your site today!

Rainmaker.FM

The Digital Commerce and Content Marketing Podcast Network

  • Home
  • Shows
  • Hosts
  • About
  • Home
  • Shows
  • Hosts
  • About
  • Member Area
  • Log In
Menu
  • Log In
  • Free Training
7-Figure Small with Brian Clark
Confessions of a Pink-Haired Marketer
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing
Get More Clients With Smarter Email Marketing
Hack the Entrepreneur
Members Only
Rainmaker.FM Elsewhere
Site Success: Tips for Building Better WordPress Websites
StudioPress FM
Technology Translated
The Digital Entrepreneur
The Missing Link
The Showrunner
The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience
Youpreneur with Chris Ducker
Zero to Book
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing
hosted by Darrell Vesterfelt and Tim Stoddart

Celebrating Our 101st Episode (with a Special Guest Interviewer)

  • Social:
  • Link:
  • Embed:
https://rainmaker.fm/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/lede-101.mp3
Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes
Previous Episode:Why The Phrase 'Leaders Are Readers' Should Die More Episodes Next Episode:Are Podcasters Digitally Sharecropping Without Realizing It?

All Episodes:

March 30, 2020

The Advantage of Email Marketing, Featuring Nathan Barry of ConvertKit

March 15, 2020

How to Write Content That Resonates

March 9, 2020

How to Conquer Your Fear of Selling, with Leah Neaderthal

March 2, 2020

How to Build Remarkable Products to Grow Your Business, with Ramit Sethi

February 17, 2020

What You Should Talk about on Your Podcast, with Tara McMullin

February 9, 2020

How to Win at Search in 2020

February 3, 2020

How to Turn Pro as a Freelance Writer

January 27, 2020

Marketing Segmentation and Personalization with Brennan Dunn of RightMessage

January 20, 2020

Podcasting Still Matters, with Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income

January 13, 2020

The New Look Copyblogger in 2020

January 8, 2020

New Year, New Copyblogger

October 23, 2019

The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur with John Jantsch

October 2, 2019

Consistency Will Take You Further

September 25, 2019

The Past, Present, and Future of Online Learning

September 16, 2019

How to Get More of the Right Things Done

September 9, 2019

Why the Future Is Still Email

September 3, 2019

What’s Next for
Copyblogger Media?

August 26, 2019

How Smart, Nimble Companies Are Using Webinars Today

August 19, 2019

The Clarity Method: A Conversation with Tim Brownson

August 12, 2019

Digital Business Trends and the Latest on the Rainmaker Platform

August 5, 2019

4 ‘Naive’ Business Principles for Enduring Success

July 8, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion

July 1, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written

June 24, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research

June 17, 2019

3 Almost Magical Headline Ingredients for More Traffic, Engagement, and Shares

June 10, 2019

Lessons Any Business Can Learn from an Impressive Influencer Marketing Fail

June 3, 2019

13 Ways of Looking at a Headline

May 27, 2019

The 7 ‘Bad’ Habits of Incredibly Successful People

May 20, 2019

Writers: How to Move from Making a Living to Driving Revenue

May 13, 2019

Choose the Right Frame to Boost the Power of Your Content

May 6, 2019

How Copywriting Teacher Belinda Weaver Reenergized Her Email List for Massive Engagement

April 29, 2019

3 Reasons Why Really Good Writers Sometimes Can’t Find Great Clients

April 22, 2019

3 Slightly Embarrassing Emotions that Drive Effective Copywriting

April 15, 2019

Get 10 Content Marketing Boosters in 20 Minutes

April 8, 2019

Becoming the ‘Chief Empathy Officer’ of Your Copy and Content

April 1, 2019

One of the Most Important Marketing Decisions You’ll Ever Make

March 18, 2019

What Nobody Wants to Hear about Content Marketing

March 11, 2019

Getting Your Big, Scary Projects Finished: A Conversation about Growing Gills

March 4, 2019

When Is It Time to Bring in a Professional Copywriter?

February 25, 2019

Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase

February 18, 2019

Understanding the Lifecycles of Your Website, with Pamela Wilson

February 11, 2019

5 Ways to Manage a Stress-Induced Creative Slump

February 4, 2019

3 Ways Strategic Content Can Drive Measurable Business Outcomes

January 28, 2019

The Social Media Platform Every Content Creator Should Be Using in 2019 (Nope, It’s Not Facebook)

January 21, 2019

Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content

January 14, 2019

A Conversation with Paul Jarvis about Staying a ‘Company of One’

October 29, 2018

The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion

October 22, 2018

5 Essential Copywriting Techniques from Copyblogger

October 15, 2018

5 Ways to Recover Your Professional and Creative Confidence

October 8, 2018

5 Stinky Sardine Secrets to Make Your Content More Fascinating

September 24, 2018

The Mindset ‘Hack’ that Frees Your Creativity and Makes You Happier

September 18, 2018

How to Kill Your Sales and Mess up Your Business: Lessons from a Used Car Salesman

September 4, 2018

The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living

August 27, 2018

Are You Making These Social Media Marketing Mistakes?

August 20, 2018

Fix These 7 About Page Mistakes for More Traffic and (Possibly) Better SEO

August 13, 2018

7 Ways to Boost Your Creativity

August 6, 2018

A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site

July 30, 2018

The 3 Keys to Publishing Strong Content … Even If You Aren’t a ‘Great’ Writer (Yet)

July 23, 2018

Fix These 3 Points of Failure to Get Better Results for Your Content

July 16, 2018

Big Changes at ConvertKit: A Discussion with Founder Nathan Barry

July 9, 2018

3 Skills to Master to Become a Marketing Badass this Year

June 18, 2018

The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy

June 11, 2018

5 Rules of Thumb to Relieve SEO-Induced Stress

June 4, 2018

How to Use the GDPR to Make Your Business Stronger than Ever

May 14, 2018

‘Good Karma’ Selling that Works: A Conversation with Tim Paige

April 30, 2018

How to Get More Comfortable (and Effective) at Selling

April 23, 2018

Privacy and Permission in the Wake of Cambridge Analytica

April 16, 2018

Seth Godin and How to Create Change

April 9, 2018

Email? Chatbots? Social? How Are We Supposed to Reach People?

March 26, 2018

The Double-Edged Sword that Can Make (or Break) Your Content

March 19, 2018

Make More Progress by Getting (Gently) Out of Your Comfort Zone

March 12, 2018

Are You Doing Content Marketing Wrong?

March 5, 2018

Storytelling for Modern Content Marketing (Part 2 of 2)

February 26, 2018

Storytelling for Modern Content Marketing (Part 1 of 2)

February 19, 2018

10 Quality Factors Search Engines Need to See on Your Site

February 12, 2018

A Simple Content Strategy to Make Your Site Massively More Useful

February 5, 2018

How to Avoid a Heartbreaking Business Failure

January 29, 2018

Hey Writers: Let’s Get You Paid What You’re Worth

January 15, 2018

5 Keys to Making Your Content More Shareable

December 18, 2017

3 Observations on Trends (but not Predictions) for 2018

December 11, 2017

3 Tips Now to Build a Strong Foundation in 2018

December 4, 2017

The 3 Success Factors that Help Writers Earn a Great Living

November 27, 2017

How to Recognize a Great Content Idea

November 20, 2017

How to Cultivate a More Meaningful Gratitude Practice

November 13, 2017

Advice for Poets, Advice for Killers

October 30, 2017

Face Your Business Fears on Halloween Week

October 23, 2017

How to Make Smarter Decisions about Your Website

October 2, 2017

A Series of Unfortunate Content Events

September 18, 2017

The Evolution of a Successful Copywriter

August 28, 2017

7 Ways to Improve Your Marketing by Harnessing the Power of Evil

August 14, 2017

Smart Questions from our Brilliant Audience

August 7, 2017

Does the Web Have Enough Patience for Your In-Depth Content?

July 31, 2017

How to Write (Much Better) Blog Comments

July 17, 2017

Which Works Better: Positive or Negative Content?

July 10, 2017

How to Attract the Exact Customers You Want

July 3, 2017

How to Create Stability and Success as an Artist

June 19, 2017

Two Powerful Resources for Life-Changing Growth

June 12, 2017

How to Turn All that Marketing Advice into Action

June 5, 2017

How to Develop a Compelling Marketing Idea in 4 Steps

May 30, 2017

Getting Over the Fear of Selling

May 22, 2017

Talking Community and Digital Business with Tara Gentile

May 15, 2017

Plagiarism, Self-Deception, Bad Sandwiches, and Other Interesting Disasters

May 1, 2017

Professional Writers: Find Out How to Get Certified by Copyblogger

April 17, 2017

The Painful Core Lesson Taught by 3 Astonishing Big-Brand Fails

April 3, 2017

5 Mindset Habits that Actually Work

March 27, 2017

On Grammar, Usage, and Not Being a Great Big Jerk

March 20, 2017

Creative Strategies for Content Writers

March 13, 2017

A New Ultra-Easy Resource for Creating Excellent WordPress Sites

February 20, 2017

Thriving Freelancers and Clients from Hell

February 13, 2017

Politics, Content Marketing, and the 2017 Super Bowl Ads

February 6, 2017

Copyblogger Book Club: Winning the Story Wars

January 23, 2017

3 Content Marketing Strategy Fails (and How to Fix Them)

January 9, 2017

The 2017 Content Excellence Challenge: Your January Assignments

December 19, 2016

Bad Writing Advice: The ‘Post Truth’ Episode

December 12, 2016

Get Ready Now for a Creative and Productive 2017

December 5, 2016

The 4 Pillars Every Online Business Is Built On

November 28, 2016

Orbit Media’s Latest Survey of 1000 Bloggers

November 14, 2016

Have You Already Missed the Podcasting Gold Rush?

November 7, 2016

Getting More Traffic, Links, and Shares to Your Content

October 31, 2016

5 Quick Wins for Content Marketers

October 24, 2016

Announcing: An Intriguing New Tool for Collaborative Content

October 17, 2016

A New Book to Make Content Marketing Easier

October 10, 2016

Behind the Scenes at Copyblogger: Our New Email Approach

October 3, 2016

The ‘Obligatory’ Structure of Effective Content

September 26, 2016

7 Powerful Content Strategies Borrowed from Advertising Masters

September 15, 2016

How to Handle Demographic and Psychographic Segmentation (without Looking Like an Idiot)

September 8, 2016

Ethics, Professionalism, and Good Manners for Content Marketers

September 1, 2016

3 Questions that Can Haunt Creative Professionals

August 25, 2016

How to Give and Get Exceptional Testimonials, Part Two

August 18, 2016

How to Give and Get Exceptional Testimonials, Part One

August 11, 2016

Are You Leaving Money on the Table with Weak Headlines?

August 4, 2016

Content Marketing for Nonprofits

July 28, 2016

The One-Two Punch that Creates the Most Successful Copywriters

July 21, 2016

Pokémon Go: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

July 14, 2016

5 Suggestions When You’re Writing About Controversy

July 7, 2016

Announcing: A Breakthrough Educational Collaboration between Copyblogger and U.C. Davis

June 30, 2016

How to Break Past the #1 Conversion Killer

June 23, 2016

The New Age of Marketing Automation: Powerful, Simple, Cost-Effective

June 16, 2016

How to Make a (Really Good) Living as a Freelance Writer

June 9, 2016

Self-Publishing, Side Hustles, and Doing It All: A Conversation with Linda Formichelli

June 2, 2016

A Process for Content Marketing Success

May 26, 2016

Content Marketing Best Practices: Getting Email Opt-Ins

May 19, 2016

Behind the Scenes: Adventures in Advertising

May 12, 2016

Trump, Apple, and Facebook Advertising: Content Marketing News for May, 2016

May 5, 2016

Sally Hogshead and the Art of Fascination

April 28, 2016

Behind the Scenes at the Rainmaker Digital Company Meeting!

April 14, 2016

Social Media News, Social Media Constants

April 7, 2016

Strategies for B2B Podcasting, with Clark Buckner

March 31, 2016

Content Marketing Success Stories: Fitness Powerhouse Examine.com

March 24, 2016

Behind the Scenes: An Inside Look at the Rainmaker FM Redesign

March 17, 2016

Our Latest Advice and Resources for Digital Business Owners

March 10, 2016

Should Content Publishers Adopt Google’s New AMP?

March 3, 2016

7 Ways to Get Smarter with Social Media Listening

February 25, 2016

Content Marketing Shout-Out: Orbit Media and Andy Crestodina

February 18, 2016

The Tactic You Should Steal from Copyblogger

February 11, 2016

Content Marketing News for February, 2016

February 4, 2016

Email Marketing: The Misunderstood Powerhouse

January 28, 2016

The Secret Weapon Behind Great Websites: The Role of the Content Editor

January 21, 2016

Behind the Scenes: The Relaunch and Re-Imagining of Copyblogger.com

January 14, 2016

Trends and Predictions for Digital Commerce: A Conversation with Brian Clark

January 7, 2016

2016 Content Marketing Resolutions

December 28, 2015

The End of The Lede, The Beginning of Copyblogger FM

November 10, 2015

Constraints Can Be Blessings (Plus 2 Other Essential Lessons Jerod Re-Learned This Week)

November 3, 2015

Long or Short? The Content Length Question Answered, Once and For All

October 27, 2015

The Simple Publishing Hack That Gives Old Content New Life (Plus 3 More Tips)

October 20, 2015

The Surprising Truth about Earning a Profit from Your Content

October 13, 2015

How to Move Your Audience From Infatuation to Love

October 6, 2015

3 Things Your Audience Wants You to Know about Useful Content

September 29, 2015

Revisiting Authenticity: What It Is, What It’s Not, and Why It Matters

September 22, 2015

Publishing Lessons from Dave Pell, the Most Fascinating Email Newsletter Writer in the Business

September 15, 2015

Why Content Creators Should Kiss Their Programmers

September 8, 2015

Finally — A Podcast about the Superiority of Written Content

September 1, 2015

Hot Seat: Grilling Jerod on Using Audio Content to Seed a Content Arsenal

August 25, 2015

How to Optimize Your Headlines for Content Discovery with Vinegar (Before You Die of Cholera)

August 18, 2015

5 Stories That Explain Jerod Morris (Plus One Massive Marketing Lesson)

August 11, 2015

Lede Potpourri: A Big Idea, Talking About Demian Behind His Back, and Lessons from #PM15

August 4, 2015

How to Attend an Industry Conference Like a Boss

July 28, 2015

Getting the Most Out of a Conference When You’re There to Promote, Part 1

July 21, 2015

How Much Does the Modern Content Marketer Need to Know About SEO?

July 14, 2015

Are Podcasters Digitally Sharecropping Without Realizing It?

July 7, 2015

Celebrating Our 101st Episode (with a Special Guest Interviewer)

June 30, 2015

Why The Phrase ‘Leaders Are Readers’ Should Die

June 23, 2015

Why You Should Think Outside the Box About Online Courses

June 16, 2015

The Proper (and Safe) Way to Republish Old Articles

June 9, 2015

How to Grow an Audience on LinkedIn by Repurposing Content

June 2, 2015

Key Takeaways from Three-and-a-Half Hours with Henry Rollins

May 27, 2015

Rapid-Fire Takeaways from Authority Rainmaker

May 19, 2015

The Proper Way to Grow an Audience on Medium

May 12, 2015

The Introvert’s Guide to Launching a Successful Podcast

May 5, 2015

The One Quality All Popular Podcasts Share

April 28, 2015

Proof That Grit Is the Only Way to Reach Your Potential

April 21, 2015

Do We Celebrate Failure Too Much?

April 14, 2015

Choose Yourself Part 2: James Altucher Fights Back

April 7, 2015

Should We Fear Content Shock? (Or Could It Actually Be a Good Thing?)

March 31, 2015

Should You Really ‘Walk in the Direction of Your Fear’?

March 24, 2015

Is ‘Choose Yourself’ Good Advice … or New-Age Phooey?

March 17, 2015

Is Authority Earned or Bestowed?

March 3, 2015

Dan Pink on How to Succeed in the New Era of Selling

February 24, 2015

Here’s How to Answer the Most Important Question in Life (and Make a Living from It)

February 17, 2015

Sally Hogshead on How You Can Unlock Your Natural Ability to Fascinate

February 10, 2015

How to Learn from Your Successes

January 27, 2015

How to Learn From Your Mistakes

January 13, 2015

Lessons Learned from Conducting Two Monster Audience Surveys

December 16, 2014

Adaptive Content: A Trend to Pay Attention to in 2015

December 2, 2014

The Most Important Lessons You Should Have Learned in 2014

November 18, 2014

How We Built Our Careers Online (And What You Can Learn From It)

November 4, 2014

Interview with Brian Clark: How Customer Experience Maps Help You Develop a Smarter Content Strategy

October 21, 2014

How Empathy Maps Help You Speak Directly to the Hearts of Your Audience

October 7, 2014

How to Ignite a Feeling in Your Audience

September 23, 2014

Are You Overlooking This Cornerstone of a Smart Content Strategy?

June 26, 2014

How to Curate Knowledge, Turn it Into Wisdom, and Build Your Audience

June 19, 2014

How Successful Writers Curate Ideas

June 13, 2014

The 5 W’s of Link Curation

June 6, 2014

Why You Should Curate Content (And How to Do It Right)

May 30, 2014

How Freaks and Misfits Can Succeed in Business: A Conversation with Chris Brogan

May 23, 2014

The 2 Reasons People Don’t Click on Your Buttons … And How to Overcome Them

May 16, 2014

Chase Customers, Not Clicks

May 9, 2014

How to Be Authentic

May 2, 2014

How to Close With Style

April 25, 2014

The Best of Seth Godin on Copyblogger

April 17, 2014

How to Choose Arresting Images for Your Blog Posts (And Why You Should)

April 11, 2014

Removing Blog Comments: The View So Far

April 4, 2014

How to Use Internal Cliffhangers

March 28, 2014

Hangout Hot Seat with Brian Clark

March 21, 2014

How to Tell a Seductive Story

March 14, 2014

How to Create Exquisite Subheads

March 7, 2014

How to Write Killer Bullet Points

February 28, 2014

How to Write Damn Good Sentences

February 21, 2014

How to Use Persuasive Words

February 14, 2014

Michael Stelzner on Capturing Emails and Committing to Quality

February 7, 2014

How to Nail Your Opening

January 24, 2014

How to Write a Magnetic Headline (in Under 15 Minutes)

May 18, 2012

Seth Godin on When You Should Start Marketing Your Product, Service, or Idea

May 11, 2012

How to Attract an Audience by Integrating Content, Social, and Search

March 30, 2012

Why You Should Build an Audience Before You Build a Business

March 16, 2012

How Chris Brogan Built His Content Platform

March 9, 2012

Jay Baer on How to Turn Interested Prospects into Lifelong Customers

March 2, 2012

A 30-Minute Copywriting Course from a Master of the Craft

February 24, 2012

The Path to a Legendary Copywriting Career

February 17, 2012

5 Tips for Affiliate Marketing Beginners

February 10, 2012

Why Not Sell Physical Stuff With Digital Media?

February 3, 2012

Whether You Call it Blogging or Not, Online Content Still Rules

January 27, 2012

Answers to the 3 Biggest Email Marketing Questions We Get

January 20, 2012

How to Newsjack Your Way to Free Media Exposure with David Meerman Scott

January 13, 2012

Steven Pressfield and the War of Work

November 18, 2011

The Strategy Behind the Copyblogger Redesign

November 11, 2011

7 Ways to Create an Email Marketing "Snowball Effect"

November 4, 2011

Warning: If You're Not a Privacy Nut, You're Losing Sales

October 28, 2011

The 3 Kinds of Writing That Builds a Business

October 21, 2011

The Art of Seductive Writing: A Conversation with Robert Greene

October 7, 2011

Why Content Marketing Doesn't Suck

September 30, 2011

Are You Weird Enough to Succeed at Content Marketing?

September 23, 2011

What Works With SEO Right Now and Why No One Does What You Want

September 16, 2011

Are You Flushing Your Marketing Down the Social Media Toilet?

September 11, 2011

Seth Godin on Blogging, Business Books, and Creating Content that Matters

September 2, 2011

The Return of Copyblogger Radio …

June 10, 2011

Answered: Your Most Burning Content Marketing Questions

June 3, 2011

How to Get All the Clients and Customers You Can Handle

May 20, 2011

Is Content Marketing Worth the Work?

May 13, 2011

How to Write Nearly Undeletable Emails

May 6, 2011

Is the Online Gold Rush Over?

April 22, 2011

The Art of Enchanting Online Marketing with Guy Kawasaki

April 15, 2011

The Market for Something to Believe in is Infinite: An Interview with Hugh MacLeod

April 8, 2011

How to Constantly Create Compelling Content

March 25, 2011

The Content Marketing Question You Need to Answer … Now

March 18, 2011

Good SEO is Simple. Really.

March 4, 2011

Did Social Media Kill the Marketing Star?

February 25, 2011

How to Write (and Execute) a Simple but Powerful Business Plan

February 17, 2011

How to Kick Groupon to the Curb and Become a Local Hero

February 3, 2011

Convert … Or Die

January 27, 2011

Attention: Is Your Headline Getting Any?

January 20, 2011

How to Craft Landing Pages that Work

January 13, 2011

Why Every Smart Business is in the Media Business

January 5, 2011

2011 Content Marketing Predictions

December 15, 2010

Tim Ferriss on How to Reinvent Yourself with Blog Marketing

December 8, 2010

The 6 Elements of an Influential Web Experience

December 1, 2010

Your Staggeringly Unfair Marketing Advantage

November 17, 2010

How to Get Some Action

November 10, 2010

The Foundation of All Marketing that Works

November 3, 2010

Introducing Copyblogger Radio

July 7, 2015

Celebrating Our 101st Episode (with a Special Guest Interviewer)

Last week, the 100th episode of The Lede was published. This week, for episode 101, we decided to celebrate. To honor the occasion, not only do we have a musical gift to present to our listeners, we also have a special guest host on hand to serve as the Voice of the Audience.

Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You ByWP Engine

Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting.

Start getting more from your site today!

And it kicks off with a bang — one Jerod was reluctant to participate in.

Remember a few episodes back (right here) when Demian wrote that song for the fictitious band “Jerod Morris and the Spongebags”? (Use that link to listen to Demian speak the lyrics at the 4:45 mark, or scroll down to that transcript to read the lyrics.)

Well, listener demand and incessant peer pressure finally won the day, and Jerod actually recorded himself performing the song. But it wasn’t to a dubstep beat. No, Demian took care of that. Jerod, instead, delivered his own interpretation more appropriate for a man from the Lone Star state. And just for good measure, we had an actual professional perform it as well … because why not?

So here is our “gift” to you, dear listener: the mp3 files for each version of When the Vest Comes Off (Ooh La La). Open them in a new window to listen privately, but do not, under any circumstances, share them publicly. If anyone involved in running Rainmaker.FM knows they exist, there may not be a Lede #102. Thank you. 🙂

  • When the Vest Comes Off (Ooh La La) — Country Cover by Jerod Morris and the Spongebags
  • When the Vest Comes Off (Ooh La La) — DubStep Remix by Dubian Farnworth
  • When the Vest Comes Off (Ooh La La) — Rap Remix by Custom Rap Songs on Fiverr

Okay, now that we’ve got that out of the way, let’s get on to more serious matters: like whether Demian Farnworth would rather jump into the ocean or a swimming pool.

That is but one of the many intriguing questions posed to Demian and Jerod by guest host Jonny Nastor of Hack the Entrepreneur. Others include:

  • What is your favorite concert experience?
  • What would you be doing if you were not creating online content?
  • If you could have dinner with one person, who would it be and what would you serve?

For this last question, Jerod mentioned that he would serve his apparently delicious roasted brussels sprouts. And since he shot his mouth off and promised to include the recipe in the show notes, you’ll find it below.

There isn’t much more prefacing necessary for this episode. If you come looking for in-depth content marketing advice, you’ll be disappointed. But if you’re up for a fun three-way conversation that gives you a unique insight into who Demian and Jerod are as professionals, people, and friends, then you should enjoy this week’s episode of The Lede.

Then next week it’s right back to content marketing. We promise. 😉

Listen to Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing below ...

Celebrating Our 101st Episode (with a Special Guest Interviewer)Jerod Morris and Demian Farnworth
  • Social:
  • Link:
  • Embed:
https://rainmaker.fm/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/lede-101.mp3
Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes

The Show Notes

Jerod’s Apparently Delicious Roasted Brussels Sprouts

  • Preheat oven to 450 and line a baking sheet with aluminum foil
  • Cut the bottom off of roughly 30 raw brussels sprouts and then slice them in half, saving any stray leaves (and making sure the sprouts are clean and devoid of bugs)
  • Place the sliced sprouts into a large tupperware container with a little over 1/4th a cup of flour, a generous drizzle of olive oil, several shakes of cayenne pepper and garlic salt, as well as few pinches of salt, pepper, and turmeric. (Season to taste, obviously.)
  • Shake the tupperware container vigorously until all sprouts are coated and there is no more flour sitting in the corners of the tupperware (add a bit more olive oil if necessary)
  • Dump the sprouts onto the baking sheet, making sure they are all turned cut side up, then sprinkle parmesan cheese atop all sprouts
  • Bake for 8-10 minutes, or until the cheese is golden brown and the edges of the stray leaves have turned dark
  • Enjoy the deliciousness

The Transcript

Celebrating Our 101st Episode (with a Special Guest Interviewer)

Jonny Nastor: You did songs?

Demian Farnworth: Hell yeah.

Jonny Nastor: I’ve been hearing about these bands.

Demian Farnworth: Oh yeah, yeah.

Jerod Morris: They are so utterly ridiculous.

Demian Farnworth: Well, so …

Jerod Morris: They may get us fired.

We are rolling on this episode of The Lede. It is a very special episode of The Lede, and we’re glad you joined us for this episode, because it is the 101st episode of The Lede. Some shows celebrate their 100th episode. We are celebrating episode 101, frankly because we forgot. So we published an episode last week, and we’re just doing our 100th episode celebration one week late.

The Evolution of The Lede over 100 Episodes

Jerod Morris: Certainly, Demian and I can’t take the full credit for this show getting to 100 episodes, because it’s really 101 episodes of the Copyblogger podcast, which started out as Internet Marketing for Smart People and was later changed to The Lede and was hosted by Robert Bruce. And then we took it over and are really just carrying the torch they started and trying to do it by producing useful content that all the wonderful people of the Copyblogger audience can get a lot out of.

Demian Farnworth: I think it was about 42 wasn’t it? Forty-two, 44, something like that, when we took over last summer?

Jerod Morris: I think so, I think so.

Demian Farnworth: We’ve been doing it since early 2014?

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: I had no idea, this back story of it.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, exactly.

Jonny Nastor: I’m a way-far-back Internet Marketing for Smart People fan.

Jerod Morris: Really? Wow.

Demian Farnworth: You want to tell the people who that is, who that voice is?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, so we should introduce the voice. This is, people probably know. It’s Jonny Nastor, Hack the Entrepreneur. What they may be wondering is why he’s here on The Lede, and we can certainly provide the context there. Johnny just celebrated the 100th episode of Hack the Entrepreneur. He did it in a much more condensed period of time, going from September 2014 to just last week, I guess, recording the 100th episode.

Demian Farnworth: That’s nine months, huh?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, it was quick.

Jonny Nastor: Nine months.

Jerod Morris: He decided to turn the tables and be interviewed, be hacked, for his 100th episode, and he gave me the great privilege of doing that, which I enjoyed. We had the bright idea to bring him here on The Lede and turn the tables and have him interview us, and here he is.

Demian Farnworth: He is. Let me say something real quick. I’m debating though, 100th episode, 101st episode — when do you actually celebrate the 100th? Because I’m thinking about when the year 2000 came, wasn’t there some confusion about, “Isn’t the millennium in 2001 since there was no 0?”

Jonny Nastor: Right. Are you talking about how some people start their podcast with a 0 episode?

Demian Farnworth: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: Would 100 make more sense, then? Is that what you mean?

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, yeah, it’s trivial.

Jerod Morris: I don’t count the 0. I can see if someone does that as an introduction episode, like, “Here’s what the podcast is about,” but the first episode should be 1.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, I think. I didn’t do a 0. I guess you guys did a 42 or 43.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: Robert Bruce says it takes a hundred episodes to produce shows that aren’t crap, and this is 101.

Jerod Morris: This is going to be the first good episode of The Lede, I guess.

Jonny Nastor: According to Robert Bruce.

Demian Farnworth: That’s the hope at least, right?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, let’s hope so.

Jonny Nastor: As a fan of The Lede, as a fan of you two …

Demian Farnworth: Where?

Jonny Nastor: I know that people have struggled with this, like me, as a host of a show. We are interviewing other people or talking about specific subjects, say content marketing, like you guys do with writing, but sometimes we fail to actually get to know the hosts themselves and just some little things about them. I think that’s where I want to start with you guys, just some very simple questions, but they might not be simple — they might be — but I’d like to see where they take us. I would like to, I guess, learn the behind-the-scenes of Demian and Jerod.

Jerod Morris: Excellent, let’s do it.

Demian Farnworth: This might be the last show we ever do.

Our Special Gifts to You, the Audience

Jerod Morris: It very well may be. Hey, before we do this, Demian, should we tell the listeners the gift that we have for them to celebrate the 101st episode?

Demian Farnworth: Oh, yes.

Jerod Morris: Do you want to let them know what that is?

Demian Farnworth: Anybody who’s been listening for quite some time, particularly the last four or five shows, we had a small series on content syndication where you were republishing old articles on different sites like social sites, like Medium or LinkedIn, and then larger sites like Business Insider or Lifehacker.

The running metaphor for content syndication was a band called Jerod Morris and the Sponge Bags, and Jerod Morris, of course, is the lead singer — singer and songwriter. I wrote a song for Jerod and his band. It took me a long time — I wrote the song, spoke the song a couple of episodes ago, and said “So let us know if you want Jerod to actually sing this song.”

I thought we had quite a few people who said, “Yes, we want him to sing the song.” I went and hunted down some music, tried to find some music for him, found the music that I had envisioned, and I said, “Hey, here’s your music, do it.” He’s dragging his feet, not doing it. I’m pestering him with emails. Finally, I said, “Okay, you want me to drop the vocals so you can see how I’m envisioning it? Would that help you?” He’s like, “Yeah.” I did that, and so I gave him the file, and it was a very bad file.

I gave him the file, and he did give it another shot. He said, “Screw the dubstep, the disco dubstep. I’m going country.” Jerod Morris recorded a country song using the lyrics for the song, “It’s getting hot up here, I’m going to take this vest off.”

We have those two songs for everybody. We’re not going to play them on the show, but you can listen to them. They’ll be in the show notes if you want to listen to them. Jerod actually did quite a good job at it. I’m not a singer. I can’t sing. As we were talking before the show, I don’t do karaoke for that very reason.

Here’s another bonus: Mike Hale actually paid a guy on Fiverr, an actual rap artist, to do the song. And the guy did the song, and he did a great job, so that will be in there also. Thank you to Mike Hale.

So to all of our listeners for staying with us so long, our gift to you is some songs that we did.

Jerod Morris: I just want you to know, Demian, that I laughed hysterically when you sent me over your version, and it’s been placed in a special folder on my computer and will never be deleted. In any dark moment that I have in my future, I’m going to pull that song out, and I know that listening to it will pull me out of it.

Demian Farnworth: I thought you were going to say blackmail or something like that.

Jerod Morris: No, no, no, no.

Demian Farnworth: That’s good.

Jerod Morris: It’s wonderful.

Demian Farnworth: That’s your gift. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sticking with us for so long. You’ll find those songs in the show notes.

Jonny Nastor: Imagine what the gift will be at episode 200.

Jerod Morris: I don’t even want to fathom that.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: All right, Demian.

Demian Farnworth: Yes, sir?

Jonny Nastor: You’re going to take my first question.

Demian Farnworth: Okay.

Jonny Nastor: I would love to know, if you weren’t currently writing for a living, what would you see yourself doing?

The Career Demian Would Choose if He Wasn’t a Writer

Demian Farnworth: That’s a great question. I know the answer. The answer is to be a psychologist. Every time my kids ask me that question — my daughter’s 13, my son is 12 — we ask that question, it’s become a running joke, because my wife is like, “You don’t even like people. I don’t understand that. Why do you keep saying that?”

I do like people. I like people clinically.

Jerod Morris: That makes sense.

Jonny Nastor: That does make such sense, it’s funny.

Demian Farnworth: I marvel at the human condition. I marvel at, not just myself, but at other people, and the way we behave, and the things that we do, and they never cease to amaze me. So I would like to be a psychologist.

When my children ask and my wife asks, I always say, “I think probably a research psychologist.” I’ll probably be studying, not actually doing any kind of office counselling work. I do think I’d be terrible at that because I’ll be like, “This is the third time that you’ve been in here, and you’re still complaining about this. You need to get over this and get on with your life.” In that sense, I wouldn’t be very good.

Jonny Nastor: Wow. I think it’s interesting that your kids ask you this all the time. Do you just not like what you do, and they’re like, “What else would you do, Dad?”

Demian Farnworth: No, not at all. My kids are really good about conversations, asking questions, my son in particular. When we go out for a drive, we’d be heading somewhere, and he’s asking all these questions and stuff. I think they learned from me, particularly him, that if you’re the one answering the questions, you don’t have to do all the talking.

Jonny Nastor: Oh.

Demian Farnworth: Does that make sense?

Jerod Morris: If you’re the one ‘asking’ the questions you mean?

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, right. I learned at a very young age that you can control a conversation by asking the questions, and you can take the spotlight off yourself and focus it on somebody else by asking questions.

Jonny Nastor: That’s an interesting thing to teach your kids, actually. That’s something I learned later in life. Hey, Jerod?

Jerod Morris: Yes.

Jonny Nastor: Could you tell me — this is maybe to bring me into the conversation, I’m not sure — tell me what you think of when you think of Canada?

What Jerod Thinks of When He Thinks of Canada

Jerod Morris: Wow, that’s a great question. I think of you and Chris Garrett right now. Part of that is because we were just talking about it. I think that’s what I think of, really, is the people that I work with who are from Canada — the Rennicks, you, Chris Garrett — because I actually haven’t been to Canada. I want to go.

My passport is actually on its way so that I can actually step outside of the United States and do some traveling, which I can’t wait to do, Canada being one of the places. I think, in addition, if I think about it too long, I start thinking about baseball, because obviously there are Canadian teams in baseball. My first thought is just the people that I know from there, and I’ve had the great privilege of working with some great people who are from there.

Demian Farnworth: That’s a very PC answer.

Jonny Nastor: That was, yeah. Are Canadian baseball teams is any good?

Jerod Morris: The Montreal Expos were.

Jonny Nastor: I know nothing about baseball.

Jerod Morris: The Montreal Expos, in 1994.

Demian Farnworth: Nineteen what? When?

Jerod Morris: Hang on, hang on, hang on. 1994 was a strike-shortened season. The Expos were actually gone shortly thereafter, but the Expos were known for having all of these great young players, but then they couldn’t afford them. Pedro Martinez was originally an Expo. Vladimir Guerrero? Originally an Expo. So they had these great teams, but they could never quite win because by the time the players matured, they were off elsewhere.

So fine, that’s what I really think of, all right? I think of baseball because I’m a sports nut, and I think of the 1994 mythical World Series between the White Sox and the Expos that never got to happen because of the strike. There you go.

Demian Farnworth: Wow, that was deep, dude. So Jerod doesn’t get to answer the “What would he do” career question?

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, we can play it like that if you want.

Demian Farnworth: You don’t have to. You’re in control, but I was curious to hear his answer on that one.

Jonny Nastor: Okay, well then let’s just keep it easy right now then, and say, “Demian, can you tell me what you think about when you think of Canada?”

Demian Farnworth: Is it Wayne’s World? Or there was …

Jonny Nastor: Oh, Wayne’s World is amazing.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, that was a Canadian-like show.

Jonny Nastor: That was Saturday Night Live, it came from, but with Canadians.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, right. There’s another movie though about Canada …

Jonny Nastor: There’s been three, I think.

Demian Farnworth: Okay, so name them.

Jonny Nastor: Only three. I like how I said, “There’s been three.” You’re like, “Name them.” We’ve had a few more movies.

Demian Farnworth: “Eh?” that’s what I think of. Is it “Eh?” Do you know what I’m talking about? Somebody help me here.

Jerod Morris: Eh.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, Canadian Bacon?

Demian Farnworth: Oh, Strange Brew! Strange Brew.

Jonny Nastor: Strange Brew, okay. So not Canadian Bacon.

Demian Farnworth: Wasn’t that a Canadian movie? That was a long time ago.

Jonny Nastor: Strange Brew is super old, and that came from SCTV, right? Wayne’s World was from Saturday Night Live. SCTV was another comedy show trio thing in the late ‘70s. Those guys, Rick Moranis and such, went on to such great things as Honey, I Shrunk the Kids.

Demian Farnworth: Wasn’t that Canadian?

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, totally.

Demian Farnworth: Okay, okay.

Jonny Nastor: It’s as Canadian as it gets, like toques and … They had every cliché you can think about.

Demian Farnworth: The other thing that I think about with Canada is the the Banff mountain range there.

Jerod Morris: Oh, yeah.

Demian Farnworth: Which I’d love to go see someday.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, it’s amazing.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: All right, now let’s backtrack. Jerod?

Jerod Morris: Yes.

Jonny Nastor: If you weren’t writing and creating content for a living, what would you be doing?

Why Running The Showrunner Podcasting Course Is Sort of Like Coaching

Jerod Morris: I can’t podcast?

Jonny Nastor: No, because that’s part of creating the content you do. Webinars and podcasting and writing are your thing.

Jerod Morris: All right, so I can’t do online content because what I was going to say is that I would probably go into covering sports somehow. If you couldn’t tell, I like sports.

Jonny Nastor: You do like sports, and you said at one point that you wanted to be a sportscaster, but you didn’t.

Jerod Morris: I did.

Jonny Nastor: You did?

Jerod Morris: No, I always wanted to, but I didn’t, and I think that would be one thing if I can go back, that would be interesting to try. I think probably I would try to coach on a more serious level. I come from a family of coaches, and I always have that itch that would come back, especially during the seasons. I think about my experience playing high school basketball and how much fun it would be to coach and lead a team and do that. I think the one thing that always kept me from trying it out on the side is being busy or at least the illusion of busyness in my own head.

Demian Farnworth: You’d make a good coach, man. I’d play for you.

Jerod Morris: Well, thank you. You could be my point guard, Demian, any day.

Demian Farnworth: What does he do?

Jerod Morris: The point guard controls the basketball. He gets the team into the play.

Demian Farnworth: Sweet, yeah.

Jerod Morris: He controls the pace of the action.

Demian Farnworth: Sweet.

Jerod Morris: We’d have a real up-tempo offense, too, because you’d look great with your flowing blonde hair going up and down, taking it coast to coast.

Demian Farnworth: Once you have kids, man, then you’ll be able to coach your boy and girl, or girls and some boys, whatever — you’ll be able to coach their teams.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, which I greatly look forward to.

Jonny Nastor: Nice. You think, at some point, you will go into coaching?

Jerod Morris: I think on that level, certainly. My dad was a college football coach for 20 years, so not to that level, but certainly on a lower level, which I think, in a lot of ways, can be just as rewarding, if not, more so. Not for a career, but definitely something on the side for sure.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, I’m not even really, really into sports, but I coached soccer for five and six-year-olds.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: For two years, I did it, until the league actually shut down and they amalgamated a bunch of them in my city. I didn’t go with them, but it was amazing. I was blown away by it. I do like soccer, and I played soccer growing up, but I don’t really know how to coach. At that age, they wanted to learn, and they wanted to run into big, giant groups.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: It was fun. It was a lot of fun.

Jerod Morris: I think, to go along with this, one of the reasons why, I think, I’m so excited about The Showrunner Podcasting Course, and maybe you too, is that it’s like coaching in a way. We really get some elements of coaching in there where people are new, and you’re imparting not only your knowledge and your experience, but also sometimes supplying the motivation or the extra little kick, getting to know that person, finding out what motivates them. All those elements, whether it’s coaching in a course like that or coaching a sport, there’s a lot of similarities. That’s part of why I love that project so much.

Jonny Nastor: Did you realize that before? Because I didn’t. I’ve realized that since that, “Wow, we really are the coaches in this group.”

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: It was an interesting realization to me, but yeah, it’s changed my mindset about it.

Jerod Morris: Yeah. I’ve never really thought of it explicitly like that until just now, but it makes sense.

Jonny Nastor: All right, Demian.

Demian Farnworth: Yes, sir.

Jonny Nastor: You’re the first one for this.

Demian Farnworth: Okay.

Our Ideal Dinner Guests

Jonny Nastor: Who would be your ideal dinner guest, living or dead, and what would you serve them?

Demian Farnworth: I’d serve them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches because that’s all I can manage.

Jonny Nastor: Seriously?

Demian Farnworth: I always think I just got to go to my main man, William Faulkner. If I’m going to have a literary hero, it would be him as the default person. I would like to have dinner with Joan Didion. That would be interesting, too, and of course these are all literary references.

I think it would be interesting, too — somebody who’s dead would be Teddy Roosevelt. Reading his biography always fascinated and absolutely humbled me because he was a mad man as far as productivity went. Yeah, maybe I’d manage something more exquisite than peanut butter and jelly, but I’m helpless and hopeless in the kitchen, and I don’t apologize for that either.

Jonny Nastor: I did make it like, “What would you serve them?” You don’t have to make it yourself.

Demian Farnworth: Oh, oh, okay, great. If that’s the case, you know what?

Jerod Morris: Don’t let him off easy.

Jonny Nastor: I’m also not a very good cook, but I think, if I was inviting William Faulkner to the table, I’d probably would look outside of my own skillset and bring someone in or at least order pizza or something.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, that’s why I married my wife, because she’s the genius in the kitchen. I would just ask her, because my default was, “Hey, you want to order pizza? Let’s go to Taco Bell.” I’d run by Taco Bell.

Jerod Morris: Taco Bell with Teddy Roosevelt.

Demian Farnworth: I think he would go for that, man.

Jerod Morris: I think he would.

Demian Farnworth: I think he would. I don’t know about William Faulkner, but as long as there was scotch there, I think he wouldn’t care where we ate.

Jonny Nastor: Excellent.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: Jerod, before you get to think about it too much, who’s your ideal dinner guest, and what would you serve them?

Jerod Morris: This can be obviously alive or dead, anybody?

Jonny Nastor: Living or dead.

Jerod Morris: I would say, I would want to talk to John Adams, second president, one of the most influential people in the American Revolution. I read his biography and was fascinated by it, and I would love to talk with him.

One of the reasons why is because he, among all the people that I’ve encountered in studying history, is one of the people who embodied the balancing of pride and humility the most because he was known as a very arrogant guy. He was extremely intelligent, and his arrogance would sometimes get the better of him. In his biography, you get to see a lot of the letters that he wrote to his family, to his wife Abigail. In a lot of it, you saw him struggling with this, and how does he maintain his humility, and how does he lead in the right way.

He had his ideals that he very much believed in, but then how do you get people to go along with you? So I would love to talk with him about that, and then also just about, obviously, the American Revolution, which is one of the most fascinating times in history.

I would make homemade pizza with a wheat crust and homemade sauce made from fresh tomatoes, which I love to do, and then on the side, we would have roasted Brussels sprouts. This is one of the things Heather likes the most that I make. Cut the Brussels sprouts in half, and you sprinkle a little bit of flour, some salt, a little bit of cayenne pepper, some garlic powder, some cheese. Put them in the oven for eight minutes at 450 degrees. It is delicious, so that’s what I would make. I would try to impress him.

Demian Farnworth: I don’t think you’d get John Adams to leave. He’s like, “Do that again, dude.”

The other person I would have would be Philip K. Dick. He’s a science fiction writer. He’s dead. He wrote the book, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? which became Blade Runner, and he wrote a number of other books that have become recent movies like that. He was sort of a psychopath, a hallucinogenic weirdo, but a great science fiction writer. I would serve him Kool-Aid and mushrooms.

Jerod Morris: Interesting.

Jonny Nastor: Related, mushrooms. The recipe for those Brussels sprouts, is that going to make it to the show notes?

Jerod Morris: We might.

Jonny Nastor: You went into explicit detail with temperature, but I didn’t have time to write it all down.

Jerod Morris: Yes, I think I will. I’ve been talking about actually putting that online for a while. What’s a better place to do it than put it right there?

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, yeah.

Jonny Nastor: Along with your bonus songs.

Jerod Morris: This is going to be the most eclectic show notes in the history of podcasting.

Demian Farnworth: I think it’ll be a good little treasure chest of stuff.

Jerod Morris: Yes.

Jonny Nastor: I agree.

Demian Farnworth: Keep people busy for a while.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Most Memorable Concert Experiences

Jonny Nastor: Okay, Jerod, you get to start this one. What is the coolest concert you’ve ever been to? And no, Jerod Morris and the Sponge Bags does not count.

Jerod Morris: The coolest concert I have ever been to was at a place called Sons of Herman Hall in Dallas, and it was seeing Father John Misty. This was well before Father John Misty was very well known. It was his very first concert. I didn’t even know who Father John Misty was, but I wanted to go to a concert that night, and so I just researched who was coming in Dallas, tried to check out some of their songs. I had to go on YouTube to find his music because it wasn’t anywhere else at that point, and it sounded cool, so I went.

This is a former Masonic Lodge, and actually, the upper part was a bowling alley. They turned it into this little mini concert hall. The acoustics were not very good. It can’t hold that many people, and there were probably only a couple of hundred people in there. The performance that they put on was incredible. He’s just the quintessential front man. He’s got a good voice. He’s just a very compelling, effervescent figure. I don’t know, there’s something about it, like Mick Jagger. He moves awkwardly, and if you actually study it, you’re like, “Why is this so captivating?”

And yet, it just is. He just has ‘it,’ and their performance … it was one of those concerts where, the song, the first four or five minutes of the song, is just a start or a suggestion, and then they go off on 10 to 15 minute riffs afterwards, and they’re just playing, and seemingly improvising, and it was just unbelievable.

To share that with a small group would feel like, “Man, this should be in a concert hall with 20,000 people.” It’s that good. It’s been awesome to see their band succeed, and I’ve seen them a couple of times since, and they’re great. That would be the most memorable, in part because it was the most unexpected.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, that’s a killer story, man. That’s awesome. Do you still just randomly, “I need to go see a show, and I’m going to look?”

Jerod Morris: I haven’t had as much. I used to a lot. I don’t as much now. It’s funny, I was actually talking about that with Heather a couple of weeks ago, that we need to start doing that again. I want to get back into it.

Demian Farnworth: Domesticity will slow you down, so you’ve got to be careful.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, I know, but I think we’re ready to get back into it now.

Demian Farnworth: Good, good, good.

Jonny Nastor: Nice. All right, Demian.

Demian Farnworth: All right, not that we’re competing, but I think my story will top Jerod’s.

Jerod Morris: I have another one that maybe afterward that will top yours. We are competing.

Demian Farnworth: No, no, Jerod, not at all. I saw Nirvana before Nevermind took off, before they took off. I saw them in a little place called Mississippi Nights, which is on the Mississippi River here in St. Louis. Small little club, maybe 300 to 400 people. This place was packed, but we were all able to get tickets.

They did a show, and the crazy thing about the show, the thing that I most remember was one, because before I didn’t really know who I was listening to. My friends were like, “We’ve got to go to this concert, go see Nirvana. They’re great.” I just went. I don’t think I’d ever heard their music before that time, so I went, and we went.

I remember Kurt Cobain was getting pissed because the bouncers were not letting people stage dive, get up onstage and stage dive. He was encouraging it. The bouncers were not doing it. Finally, toward the end of the show, it was like, “That’s it. Screw it.” Bouncers let people come up on the stage, and people just crowded.

I remember being onstage with Kurt Cobain, playing drums, and I’m sitting here with the drumsticks slamming the high hat with this drumstick four feet away from Kurt Cobain, just like that. The night was a blur after that, but that’s my favorite concert.

Jerod Morris: Damn it, that probably did top mine.

Jonny Nastor: I almost thought you were just making it up at the beginning.

Demian Farnworth: No.

Jonny Nastor: “Okay, so before …”

Demian Farnworth: Right.

Jonny Nastor: “Really?” Wow.

Demian Farnworth: Yup, yup.

Jerod Morris: All right, can I add a detail to mine? That may spring it up.

Demian Farnworth: You were onstage, right?

Jerod Morris: The guy who opened for Father John Misty is a guy called Har Mar Superstar. He’s from Minnesota, I think. He’s a short, portly, Ron Jeremy lookalike, and he sings this R&Bish-infused rock, and it’s really good, because he’s got this great voice. Obviously he’s got this Ron Jeremy-ish body, but he starts out fully clothed, and then each song, he takes an article of clothing. So by the end, he’s just in like a little Speedo-type thing, all plump and sweaty, but really getting the audience into it because his talent is just that good.

Damn it, that’s still not as good as yours.

Jonny Nastor: It’s pretty good though, it is. It is. But yeah, Nirvana.

Jerod Morris: I know.

Jonny Nastor: All right, I think — does Demian start this one?

Jerod Morris: See, Demian only told that story so that if Brian Clark decides to fire us for this episode, maybe he’ll keep Demian around because of that story.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, he’s like, “Well, I can’t fire you because you could tell me good stories about that show.”

Jerod Morris: Right.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, I get to start. Jerod went first last time.

Jonny Nastor: All right, let’s do this. Demian, this is you. Would you rather swim in a pool or swim in the ocean?

What Freaks Us Out

Demian Farnworth: Swim in the ocean.

Jonny Nastor: Really?

Demian Farnworth: I’d much rather be outdoors, yeah.

Jonny Nastor: But doesn’t the ocean freak you out in any way?

Demian Farnworth: Not at all, no.

Jonny Nastor: Awesome. See, I’m a landlocked guy. I love the ocean. I jump in, and then right back onto shore, like, “Oh my God, that was amazing,” but I freak out.

Demian Farnworth: My dad used to live on the East Coast in North Carolina, South Carolina, for a number of different reasons. He was in the military, which was one of the reasons. I remember when I was 13 or 14, I got to go visit him. I think that was my first exposure to the ocean, and they bought me a boogie board, and I fell in love with it. You couldn’t get me out of the place. I loved it so much. I’m not big on pools because I really don’t like to swim. I would choose the mountains before I would choose the oceans.

Jonny Nastor: All right then, with the ocean, I have this weird fixation …

Demian Farnworth: About sharks?

Jonny Nastor: No, about a transatlantic cruise, like from the east coast of North America, somewhere in New York, say, to London, straight across in a boat. It takes, I think, seven to nine days they’re saying, depending on weather, which obviously is completely out of your hands.

I’ve literally stayed up the last few nights till all hours of the night reading forums of people posting the most horrific and then the most beautiful stories of, “Oh my God, you’ve never seen a sunrise like this.”

Demian Farnworth: Why are you researching it?

Jonny Nastor: I don’t know. It’s one of those things that it would be good to conquer.

Demian Farnworth: Are you going to do it?

Jonny Nastor: I don’t know if I could.

Demian Farnworth: So you’re thinking about it?

Jonny Nastor: Would you? What is that, to get on a boat?

Demian Farnworth: No, I would never, not in one of those big boats. I don’t like that idea at all.

Jonny Nastor: Jerod just is, “No.”

Demian Farnworth: I don’t like the idea of the cruises and being on a big boat like that for a number of days with people. It just doesn’t appeal to me at all.

Jonny Nastor: I’ve never been on a cruise. It doesn’t appeal to me, but the idea of being able to say you crossed the Atlantic Ocean on a boat is pretty cool.

Demian Farnworth: I guess.

Jerod Morris: If you’re operating the boat.

Jonny Nastor: If you’re operating the boat?

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: Otherwise, it still freaks me out.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah. The other thing too, is there are three things that really freak me out. Am I going to get this right? Horses freak me out. Whitewater rafting freaks me out — not that it freaks me out like I have a phobia, it’s just like I have no desire.

We have good friends who own a horse, and they own horses, and I think they’re beautiful creatures, but I have no desire to get on top of that wild beast and ride it because bad things could happen. It’s the same thing with the whitewater rafting. I’d feel out of control if I were on the white water rapids. And like jumping out of a plane, I’d never do that with a parachute or whatever. Or bungee cord jump, or whatever.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, bungee jumping out of a plane, that would be …

Demian Farnworth: On a horse.

Jonny Nastor: On a horse.

Jerod Morris: Into white water rafting.

Jonny Nastor: That sounds like a Phineas and Ferb episode. All right Jerod, you are from Indiana, and now Dallas, Texas, so you are far from the ocean as well?

Jerod Morris: Yes. However, I definitely would take the ocean over a pool, and I was fortunate enough growing up that my mom’s side of the family is all from South Florida. So we would go down there pretty much once in the summer and go down to the Keys. My uncles have always been experienced boaters and ocean guys.

I think some of the most rewarding times in my life were when I faced up to my fear of the ocean because I have always had an inherent fear of just the unknown of the ocean, because around any corner, it could be a barracuda that’s attracted to your gold chain or a shark that’s intent on doing you harm. But you realize that typically — now obviously with exceptions — but for the most part, there’s nothing really to be afraid of, and you can be down there in harmony. I have found it very rewarding to overcome that fear and have good experiences.

The most fun was actually lobstering, which if you’ve never done down in the Florida Keys, it’s great. You get this little stick. It’s in the shape of a ‘Y.’ I don’t know if this was widespread, or if this was just my uncle’s little trick. You find a stick in the shape of a ‘Y.’ It’s called a tickle stick. And you swim up behind the lobster, and they’re there just sitting on the ocean floor. You have to remember that when the lobster move, they move backwards from the way that you think they would move.

So you go behind them in the direction that they would move, and you actually pin them with this little tickle stick, this Y stick. You pin them behind the back of their head, and then you grab them with your hand. Then you bring them up on to the ship. You measure them, and if they’re long enough, you can keep them, and if not, you throw them away. So that was fun.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, that sounds cool, man.

Jerod Morris: It is.

Demian Farnworth: That sounds very cool.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, definitely ocean over pool, and no cruises.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, no. I don’t think we’re old enough for cruises yet. Cruising transatlantic is my current fixation.

Jerod, speaking of current fixations, do you currently have something that you are fixated on, whether it’s TV or music or a book or a podcast?

Current Fixations

Jerod Morris: Something that I am fixated on … As people who have listened know, I often share examples from The Assembly Call, the basketball podcast that I do. I grew up in Bloomington. I grew up going to games there.

I actually haven’t been back to a game there in a long time, certainly since we started the show, which, I suppose, is somewhat ironic. I want to get back this year, both to actually get back in and feel the energy of the live events again and also to meet a lot of the audience members who I’ve never gotten a chance to meet. I would say, right now, that is my current fixation, on making that happen this year, which I hope I’ll be able to.

Jonny Nastor: You go to live basketball games, I’m assuming, in Dallas, though?

Jerod Morris: I go to Mavericks games every now and then. The thing about basketball season is that The Assembly Call has become such an in-depth personal project that a lot of times during the season, I’m either watching a game — because there are two or three IU games a week — or prepping or doing the between-game content. So I actually don’t go to as many live games as I would like to during the season because I’m ‘working.’

Jonny Nastor: ‘Working.’

Jerod Morris: Well, because it’s one of those things. It was a hobby, and now it’s turned into something more, because it’s gotten out of control. But it got out of control because I took it very seriously before it had a big audience.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, and it’s really cool. You still get to follow the basketball passion, it’s just the same season times, you can’t.

Jerod Morris: Oh, yeah, exactly, and I get to do other things. I’ve gotten to talk to lot of the guys I grew up playing. Actually, I’ve got an interview scheduled for Monday the 20th with AJ Guyton, who is literally one of the best players in school history. He’s coming on our show, and I get to interview him.

It’s opened up a lot of opportunities like that, but it’s one of those things. You get to so far moved from actually being at the games, the actual experience that inspired you in the first place. I feel like if I don’t actually get back and re-experience that, the further I get from it, the more removed I’ll be from the actual audience. It’ll just all be memories, and I don’t want that. I want to create some actual new memories that drive the enthusiasm for the show.

Jonny Nastor: Nice, I like it. All right, Demian, current fixations. Do you have any?

Demian Farnworth: Current fixations, yeah. I’d probably say that on a macro level, it’s been music probably for the last two or three years. I’ve just been binging, particularly — I guess it’s been longer than that, ever since Spotify came out — I’m like a little kid in a candy store with their catalog.

Particularly, on a micro level, have you guys heard of that podcast called Song Exploder by Hrishikesh Hirway? The premise of his show is there’s a song, a famous song, and he talks to the band members on the production of the song, the origin of the song. He breaks down each particular, like the bass line, the drum track, the vocals, the lyrics.

I think there are 40+ episodes now, and I’ve been binging on those, too. It’s really fascinating because I didn’t think that there was so much that went into making one song. Just being a guy who’s fascinated about the creative process in general and fascinated by the writing creative process, I’m equally fascinated with the musical production side of things and stuff.

The interesting thing that I have learned, my only beef about this particular podcast, is that a lot of the songs were pretty new, within the last 10 or 15 years, and they’re all pretty much one person who made them from, just a lot of times, just technology and stuff like that. A little bit of a disappointment, I guess, in that sense. What about the good old four-piece rock band? I’d love to hear Krist Novoselic from Nirvana talk about some of their old songs like that.

Jonny Nastor: Are you one of those people who just stuck with the music that you’ve always listened to, now that Spotify allows you to go through your whole high school years and stuff, or are you actively looking for new …

Demian Farnworth: No, I’m actively, yeah.

Jonny Nastor: The recommendations on Spotify are amazing.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, absolutely, always. The funny thing is, I actually, one time, sat down — not too long ago — and I was just thinking about all my musical influences, and all the different music I like.

Actually, my kids, this was a conversation I was having with my kids again, because they were like, “What kind of music did you listen to when you were growing up, Dad?” I was like, “That’s a good question,” because I remember I listened to classic rock because that’s the family I grew up in with my grandpa and stuff, and classic rock. So Blue Oyster Cult and Rush. I’ve got this vivid memory of listening to Rush with my dad, but then I started listening to Hank Williams Jr., and then one year I was totally into Duran, and then I got into The Police, and then NWA, and The Cure, and then eventually electronic music in general and stuff.

I love all kinds of music. I’m always looking for new music, but not necessarily new, contemporary music. I love finding things that are a few years older, even a couple of decades old, that are really good. I’m tuning in on those.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, that’s true, but there’s a ton of new music out.

Demian Farnworth: There really is.

Jonny Nastor: Which blows my mind. We have access to so much of it. It’s crazy that it’s out there.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: I often wonder, “Was it always like this, but we just didn’t have access to all of it?”

Demian Farnworth: Right. I don’t think so, because I think there’s a lot more avenues to publishing music these days that a lot of people have the opportunity to do. I think there is, because the only way you could hear new music was listening to the radio until the indie scene started. The radio was the only way you could hear music.

Why the Loose Format of The Lede Has Been So Successful

Jonny Nastor: All right, guys, let’s wrap up on, I guess, The Lede itself. This is episode 101. Hopefully you will make it to episode 200 at some point.

I’d love to know if you guys do plan and have goals for this show. I’ve noticed you follow lots of different formats, so it was hard for me to come up with a style. You interview some people. Sometimes you interview each other, which is really cool, and I think that’s what keeps it interesting. But do you have a conscious vision of where you want The Lede to go? Jerod, could you start?

Jerod Morris: I think we have a conscious vision and understanding of what we want the audience to get from it. We want to educate people on these different elements of content marketing. Ultimately, that’s what The Lede is. It’s a podcast about content marketing. We want to use our experience, our knowledge, and then our contacts, people that we can bring in for interviews, to do that.

I think it really depends on the specific topic, what format we follow. It’s like the curation series, that really fit in well to a four-episode series of 30- or 35-minute shows. Back when we did The 11 Essential Ingredients of a Blog Post, it made more sense to do those 15-minute bits. When wanted to do the debate style, it made sense to bring people in.

Actually Demian can chime in on this — we’ve struggled a little bit with what the format is. Should we be consistent? And maybe all along that’s part of what’s helped make the show work is not being rigid, and allowing it to flow a little bit.

Demian Farnworth: In a lot of ways, we have, in the meantime. And I know Jerod’s and my chemistry has improved, and gotten way, way, way better, and I think a lot of people have actually commented on that.

I think more about it is, how can we emphasize, and enhance, and play off that while still delivering content marketing focused content? That’s the vision I see it. We did this series, this Heroes versus Villains series, where we take sides on a particular issue, a conventional issue, and say, “Is this still true? Should we still be saying ‘leaders are readers,’ or that there’s going to be a coming content marketing collapse?” And then we debate it, and it allows us to play off each other, because it is a co-hosted show.

It allows us to play off each other and drive home an issue. I always think about what would work best that would play to our strengths, so that’s the way I see it.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, and you guys have gotten really, really good, and the relationship is more fluid. As a listener, if I didn’t know you guys and just listened, I do like how the format changes depending on what you’re covering. I know that you are here to educate about content marketing.

I hope that this interview, in some way, educated people. From a listener and a fan perspective, I’m happy that I got to learn a lot about each of you and your thought processes behind some seemingly inane things.

Demian Farnworth: It says a lot about people, though.

Jonny Nastor: It does, yeah, that’s what I really like. I hope you guys had as much fun as I did, and thank you so much again for allowing me to do this on your 101st episode.

Demian Farnworth: Thank you, man. I appreciate it.

Jerod Morris: Absolutely, thank you for doing it.

Jonny Nastor: It’s absolutely my pleasure, and here’s to good luck through the next hundred.

Jerod Morris: That’s right. Make sure you check out the show notes for the recipe on Brussels sprouts or Demian rapping, me singing, and what else is going to be on there? Possibly our resignation letters.

Demian Farnworth: Our resumes, right? I would love to see a video of somebody cooking Jerod’s Brussels sprouts while listening to his song, his country song. That would be awesome.

Jerod Morris: Oh my God.

Jonny Nastor: All right. If you post that recipe, we’ll get that taken care of.

Demian Farnworth: All right. All right, gang, anything else?

Jonny Nastor: No, that was a blast. Thank you so much, guys.

Demian Farnworth: Thank you, Jon.

Jerod Morris: Time to go jump in the ocean.

Demian Farnworth: Do what?

Jerod Morris: Time to go jump in the ocean.

Demian Farnworth: That’s right. Get on a boat.

Jerod Morris: That’s right.

Demian Farnworth: All right, bye bye, audience. We love you. Thank you.

Never Miss New Shows and Episodes on Rainmaker.FM

Get the best of the Rainmaker.FM network in a single weekly email, along with two weeks
of free training that will change the way you think about online marketing ...

Free Registration

You might also like...

Rainmaker.FM Elsewhere

Pamela Wilson on Beyond the To-Do List

Listen to episode
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing

The 5 W’s of Link Curation

Listen to episode
Rough Draft

013 How I’ll Make You Read Every Single Line of This Article

Listen to episode
Rough Draft

046 How to (Rapidly) Build an Audience with Content Syndication

Listen to episode
The Showrunner

No. 072 How to Create a MVP (Minimum Viable Podcast)

Listen to episode
7-Figure Small with Brian Clark

Enhance Your Freelance, with Jennifer Bourn

Listen to episode

Comments

  1. Gav says

    August 3, 2015 at 1:04 AM

    Hi Guys,

    A quick tip: don’t give up the day jobs; you’ll never make it as singers 😉

    Cheers,
    Gav

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You ByWP Engine

Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting.

Start getting more from your site today!

Copyright © 2023 Rainmaker Digital, LLC. Powered by the Rainmaker Platform.

Privacy Policy  ·  Refund Policy  ·  Cookie Policy  ·  Terms of Service  ·  Contact