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7-Figure Small with Brian Clark
Confessions of a Pink-Haired Marketer
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing
Get More Clients With Smarter Email Marketing
Hack the Entrepreneur
Members Only
Rainmaker.FM Elsewhere
Site Success: Tips for Building Better WordPress Websites
StudioPress FM
Technology Translated
The Digital Entrepreneur
The Missing Link
The Showrunner
The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience
Youpreneur with Chris Ducker
Zero to Book
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing
hosted by Darrell Vesterfelt and Tim Stoddart

Convert … Or Die

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Previous Episode:Attention: Is Your Headline Getting Any? More Episodes Next Episode:How to Kick Groupon to the Curb and Become a Local Hero

All Episodes:

March 30, 2020

The Advantage of Email Marketing, Featuring Nathan Barry of ConvertKit

March 15, 2020

How to Write Content That Resonates

March 9, 2020

How to Conquer Your Fear of Selling, with Leah Neaderthal

March 2, 2020

How to Build Remarkable Products to Grow Your Business, with Ramit Sethi

February 17, 2020

What You Should Talk about on Your Podcast, with Tara McMullin

February 9, 2020

How to Win at Search in 2020

February 3, 2020

How to Turn Pro as a Freelance Writer

January 27, 2020

Marketing Segmentation and Personalization with Brennan Dunn of RightMessage

January 20, 2020

Podcasting Still Matters, with Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income

January 13, 2020

The New Look Copyblogger in 2020

January 8, 2020

New Year, New Copyblogger

October 23, 2019

The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur with John Jantsch

October 2, 2019

Consistency Will Take You Further

September 25, 2019

The Past, Present, and Future of Online Learning

September 16, 2019

How to Get More of the Right Things Done

September 9, 2019

Why the Future Is Still Email

September 3, 2019

What’s Next for
Copyblogger Media?

August 26, 2019

How Smart, Nimble Companies Are Using Webinars Today

August 19, 2019

The Clarity Method: A Conversation with Tim Brownson

August 12, 2019

Digital Business Trends and the Latest on the Rainmaker Platform

August 5, 2019

4 ‘Naive’ Business Principles for Enduring Success

July 8, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion

July 1, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written

June 24, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research

June 17, 2019

3 Almost Magical Headline Ingredients for More Traffic, Engagement, and Shares

June 10, 2019

Lessons Any Business Can Learn from an Impressive Influencer Marketing Fail

June 3, 2019

13 Ways of Looking at a Headline

May 27, 2019

The 7 ‘Bad’ Habits of Incredibly Successful People

May 20, 2019

Writers: How to Move from Making a Living to Driving Revenue

May 13, 2019

Choose the Right Frame to Boost the Power of Your Content

May 6, 2019

How Copywriting Teacher Belinda Weaver Reenergized Her Email List for Massive Engagement

April 29, 2019

3 Reasons Why Really Good Writers Sometimes Can’t Find Great Clients

April 22, 2019

3 Slightly Embarrassing Emotions that Drive Effective Copywriting

April 15, 2019

Get 10 Content Marketing Boosters in 20 Minutes

April 8, 2019

Becoming the ‘Chief Empathy Officer’ of Your Copy and Content

April 1, 2019

One of the Most Important Marketing Decisions You’ll Ever Make

March 18, 2019

What Nobody Wants to Hear about Content Marketing

March 11, 2019

Getting Your Big, Scary Projects Finished: A Conversation about Growing Gills

March 4, 2019

When Is It Time to Bring in a Professional Copywriter?

February 25, 2019

Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase

February 18, 2019

Understanding the Lifecycles of Your Website, with Pamela Wilson

February 11, 2019

5 Ways to Manage a Stress-Induced Creative Slump

February 4, 2019

3 Ways Strategic Content Can Drive Measurable Business Outcomes

January 28, 2019

The Social Media Platform Every Content Creator Should Be Using in 2019 (Nope, It’s Not Facebook)

January 21, 2019

Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content

January 14, 2019

A Conversation with Paul Jarvis about Staying a ‘Company of One’

October 29, 2018

The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion

October 22, 2018

5 Essential Copywriting Techniques from Copyblogger

October 15, 2018

5 Ways to Recover Your Professional and Creative Confidence

October 8, 2018

5 Stinky Sardine Secrets to Make Your Content More Fascinating

September 24, 2018

The Mindset ‘Hack’ that Frees Your Creativity and Makes You Happier

September 18, 2018

How to Kill Your Sales and Mess up Your Business: Lessons from a Used Car Salesman

September 4, 2018

The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living

August 27, 2018

Are You Making These Social Media Marketing Mistakes?

August 20, 2018

Fix These 7 About Page Mistakes for More Traffic and (Possibly) Better SEO

August 13, 2018

7 Ways to Boost Your Creativity

August 6, 2018

A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site

July 30, 2018

The 3 Keys to Publishing Strong Content … Even If You Aren’t a ‘Great’ Writer (Yet)

July 23, 2018

Fix These 3 Points of Failure to Get Better Results for Your Content

July 16, 2018

Big Changes at ConvertKit: A Discussion with Founder Nathan Barry

July 9, 2018

3 Skills to Master to Become a Marketing Badass this Year

June 18, 2018

The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy

June 11, 2018

5 Rules of Thumb to Relieve SEO-Induced Stress

June 4, 2018

How to Use the GDPR to Make Your Business Stronger than Ever

May 14, 2018

‘Good Karma’ Selling that Works: A Conversation with Tim Paige

April 30, 2018

How to Get More Comfortable (and Effective) at Selling

April 23, 2018

Privacy and Permission in the Wake of Cambridge Analytica

April 16, 2018

Seth Godin and How to Create Change

April 9, 2018

Email? Chatbots? Social? How Are We Supposed to Reach People?

March 26, 2018

The Double-Edged Sword that Can Make (or Break) Your Content

March 19, 2018

Make More Progress by Getting (Gently) Out of Your Comfort Zone

March 12, 2018

Are You Doing Content Marketing Wrong?

March 5, 2018

Storytelling for Modern Content Marketing (Part 2 of 2)

February 26, 2018

Storytelling for Modern Content Marketing (Part 1 of 2)

February 19, 2018

10 Quality Factors Search Engines Need to See on Your Site

February 12, 2018

A Simple Content Strategy to Make Your Site Massively More Useful

February 5, 2018

How to Avoid a Heartbreaking Business Failure

January 29, 2018

Hey Writers: Let’s Get You Paid What You’re Worth

January 15, 2018

5 Keys to Making Your Content More Shareable

December 18, 2017

3 Observations on Trends (but not Predictions) for 2018

December 11, 2017

3 Tips Now to Build a Strong Foundation in 2018

December 4, 2017

The 3 Success Factors that Help Writers Earn a Great Living

November 27, 2017

How to Recognize a Great Content Idea

November 20, 2017

How to Cultivate a More Meaningful Gratitude Practice

November 13, 2017

Advice for Poets, Advice for Killers

October 30, 2017

Face Your Business Fears on Halloween Week

October 23, 2017

How to Make Smarter Decisions about Your Website

October 2, 2017

A Series of Unfortunate Content Events

September 18, 2017

The Evolution of a Successful Copywriter

August 28, 2017

7 Ways to Improve Your Marketing by Harnessing the Power of Evil

August 14, 2017

Smart Questions from our Brilliant Audience

August 7, 2017

Does the Web Have Enough Patience for Your In-Depth Content?

July 31, 2017

How to Write (Much Better) Blog Comments

July 17, 2017

Which Works Better: Positive or Negative Content?

July 10, 2017

How to Attract the Exact Customers You Want

July 3, 2017

How to Create Stability and Success as an Artist

June 19, 2017

Two Powerful Resources for Life-Changing Growth

June 12, 2017

How to Turn All that Marketing Advice into Action

June 5, 2017

How to Develop a Compelling Marketing Idea in 4 Steps

May 30, 2017

Getting Over the Fear of Selling

May 22, 2017

Talking Community and Digital Business with Tara Gentile

May 15, 2017

Plagiarism, Self-Deception, Bad Sandwiches, and Other Interesting Disasters

May 1, 2017

Professional Writers: Find Out How to Get Certified by Copyblogger

April 17, 2017

The Painful Core Lesson Taught by 3 Astonishing Big-Brand Fails

April 3, 2017

5 Mindset Habits that Actually Work

March 27, 2017

On Grammar, Usage, and Not Being a Great Big Jerk

March 20, 2017

Creative Strategies for Content Writers

March 13, 2017

A New Ultra-Easy Resource for Creating Excellent WordPress Sites

February 20, 2017

Thriving Freelancers and Clients from Hell

February 13, 2017

Politics, Content Marketing, and the 2017 Super Bowl Ads

February 6, 2017

Copyblogger Book Club: Winning the Story Wars

January 23, 2017

3 Content Marketing Strategy Fails (and How to Fix Them)

January 9, 2017

The 2017 Content Excellence Challenge: Your January Assignments

December 19, 2016

Bad Writing Advice: The ‘Post Truth’ Episode

December 12, 2016

Get Ready Now for a Creative and Productive 2017

December 5, 2016

The 4 Pillars Every Online Business Is Built On

November 28, 2016

Orbit Media’s Latest Survey of 1000 Bloggers

November 14, 2016

Have You Already Missed the Podcasting Gold Rush?

November 7, 2016

Getting More Traffic, Links, and Shares to Your Content

October 31, 2016

5 Quick Wins for Content Marketers

October 24, 2016

Announcing: An Intriguing New Tool for Collaborative Content

October 17, 2016

A New Book to Make Content Marketing Easier

October 10, 2016

Behind the Scenes at Copyblogger: Our New Email Approach

October 3, 2016

The ‘Obligatory’ Structure of Effective Content

September 26, 2016

7 Powerful Content Strategies Borrowed from Advertising Masters

September 15, 2016

How to Handle Demographic and Psychographic Segmentation (without Looking Like an Idiot)

September 8, 2016

Ethics, Professionalism, and Good Manners for Content Marketers

September 1, 2016

3 Questions that Can Haunt Creative Professionals

August 25, 2016

How to Give and Get Exceptional Testimonials, Part Two

August 18, 2016

How to Give and Get Exceptional Testimonials, Part One

August 11, 2016

Are You Leaving Money on the Table with Weak Headlines?

August 4, 2016

Content Marketing for Nonprofits

July 28, 2016

The One-Two Punch that Creates the Most Successful Copywriters

July 21, 2016

PokΓ©mon Go: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

July 14, 2016

5 Suggestions When You’re Writing About Controversy

July 7, 2016

Announcing: A Breakthrough Educational Collaboration between Copyblogger and U.C. Davis

June 30, 2016

How to Break Past the #1 Conversion Killer

June 23, 2016

The New Age of Marketing Automation: Powerful, Simple, Cost-Effective

June 16, 2016

How to Make a (Really Good) Living as a Freelance Writer

June 9, 2016

Self-Publishing, Side Hustles, and Doing It All: A Conversation with Linda Formichelli

June 2, 2016

A Process for Content Marketing Success

May 26, 2016

Content Marketing Best Practices: Getting Email Opt-Ins

May 19, 2016

Behind the Scenes: Adventures in Advertising

May 12, 2016

Trump, Apple, and Facebook Advertising: Content Marketing News for May, 2016

May 5, 2016

Sally Hogshead and the Art of Fascination

April 28, 2016

Behind the Scenes at the Rainmaker Digital Company Meeting!

April 14, 2016

Social Media News, Social Media Constants

April 7, 2016

Strategies for B2B Podcasting, with Clark Buckner

March 31, 2016

Content Marketing Success Stories: Fitness Powerhouse Examine.com

March 24, 2016

Behind the Scenes: An Inside Look at the Rainmaker FM Redesign

March 17, 2016

Our Latest Advice and Resources for Digital Business Owners

March 10, 2016

Should Content Publishers Adopt Google’s New AMP?

March 3, 2016

7 Ways to Get Smarter with Social Media Listening

February 25, 2016

Content Marketing Shout-Out: Orbit Media and Andy Crestodina

February 18, 2016

The Tactic You Should Steal from Copyblogger

February 11, 2016

Content Marketing News for February, 2016

February 4, 2016

Email Marketing: The Misunderstood Powerhouse

January 28, 2016

The Secret Weapon Behind Great Websites: The Role of the Content Editor

January 21, 2016

Behind the Scenes: The Relaunch and Re-Imagining of Copyblogger.com

January 14, 2016

Trends and Predictions for Digital Commerce: A Conversation with Brian Clark

January 7, 2016

2016 Content Marketing Resolutions

December 28, 2015

The End of The Lede, The Beginning of Copyblogger FM

November 10, 2015

Constraints Can Be Blessings (Plus 2 Other Essential Lessons Jerod Re-Learned This Week)

November 3, 2015

Long or Short? The Content Length Question Answered, Once and For All

October 27, 2015

The Simple Publishing Hack That Gives Old Content New Life (Plus 3 More Tips)

October 20, 2015

The Surprising Truth about Earning a Profit from Your Content

October 13, 2015

How to Move Your Audience From Infatuation to Love

October 6, 2015

3 Things Your Audience Wants You to Know about Useful Content

September 29, 2015

Revisiting Authenticity: What It Is, What It’s Not, and Why It Matters

September 22, 2015

Publishing Lessons from Dave Pell, the Most Fascinating Email Newsletter Writer in the Business

September 15, 2015

Why Content Creators Should Kiss Their Programmers

September 8, 2015

Finally — A Podcast about the Superiority of Written Content

September 1, 2015

Hot Seat: Grilling Jerod on Using Audio Content to Seed a Content Arsenal

August 25, 2015

How to Optimize Your Headlines for Content Discovery with Vinegar (Before You Die of Cholera)

August 18, 2015

5 Stories That Explain Jerod Morris (Plus One Massive Marketing Lesson)

August 11, 2015

Lede Potpourri: A Big Idea, Talking About Demian Behind His Back, and Lessons from #PM15

August 4, 2015

How to Attend an Industry Conference Like a Boss

July 28, 2015

Getting the Most Out of a Conference When You’re There to Promote, Part 1

July 21, 2015

How Much Does the Modern Content Marketer Need to Know About SEO?

July 14, 2015

Are Podcasters Digitally Sharecropping Without Realizing It?

July 7, 2015

Celebrating Our 101st Episode (with a Special Guest Interviewer)

June 30, 2015

Why The Phrase ‘Leaders Are Readers’ Should Die

June 23, 2015

Why You Should Think Outside the Box About Online Courses

June 16, 2015

The Proper (and Safe) Way to Republish Old Articles

June 9, 2015

How to Grow an Audience on LinkedIn by Repurposing Content

June 2, 2015

Key Takeaways from Three-and-a-Half Hours with Henry Rollins

May 27, 2015

Rapid-Fire Takeaways from Authority Rainmaker

May 19, 2015

The Proper Way to Grow an Audience on Medium

May 12, 2015

The Introvert’s Guide to Launching a Successful Podcast

May 5, 2015

The One Quality All Popular Podcasts Share

April 28, 2015

Proof That Grit Is the Only Way to Reach Your Potential

April 21, 2015

Do We Celebrate Failure Too Much?

April 14, 2015

Choose Yourself Part 2: James Altucher Fights Back

April 7, 2015

Should We Fear Content Shock? (Or Could It Actually Be a Good Thing?)

March 31, 2015

Should You Really ‘Walk in the Direction of Your Fear’?

March 24, 2015

Is ‘Choose Yourself’ Good Advice … or New-Age Phooey?

March 17, 2015

Is Authority Earned or Bestowed?

March 3, 2015

Dan Pink on How to Succeed in the New Era of Selling

February 24, 2015

Here’s How to Answer the Most Important Question in Life (and Make a Living from It)

February 17, 2015

Sally Hogshead on How You Can Unlock Your Natural Ability to Fascinate

February 10, 2015

How to Learn from Your Successes

January 27, 2015

How to Learn From Your Mistakes

January 13, 2015

Lessons Learned from Conducting Two Monster Audience Surveys

December 16, 2014

Adaptive Content: A Trend to Pay Attention to in 2015

December 2, 2014

The Most Important Lessons You Should Have Learned in 2014

November 18, 2014

How We Built Our Careers Online (And What You Can Learn From It)

November 4, 2014

Interview with Brian Clark: How Customer Experience Maps Help You Develop a Smarter Content Strategy

October 21, 2014

How Empathy Maps Help You Speak Directly to the Hearts of Your Audience

October 7, 2014

How to Ignite a Feeling in Your Audience

September 23, 2014

Are You Overlooking This Cornerstone of a Smart Content Strategy?

June 26, 2014

How to Curate Knowledge, Turn it Into Wisdom, and Build Your Audience

June 19, 2014

How Successful Writers Curate Ideas

June 13, 2014

The 5 W’s of Link Curation

June 6, 2014

Why You Should Curate Content (And How to Do It Right)

May 30, 2014

How Freaks and Misfits Can Succeed in Business: A Conversation with Chris Brogan

May 23, 2014

The 2 Reasons People Don’t Click on Your Buttons … And How to Overcome Them

May 16, 2014

Chase Customers, Not Clicks

May 9, 2014

How to Be Authentic

May 2, 2014

How to Close With Style

April 25, 2014

The Best of Seth Godin on Copyblogger

April 17, 2014

How to Choose Arresting Images for Your Blog Posts (And Why You Should)

April 11, 2014

Removing Blog Comments: The View So Far

April 4, 2014

How to Use Internal Cliffhangers

March 28, 2014

Hangout Hot Seat with Brian Clark

March 21, 2014

How to Tell a Seductive Story

March 14, 2014

How to Create Exquisite Subheads

March 7, 2014

How to Write Killer Bullet Points

February 28, 2014

How to Write Damn Good Sentences

February 21, 2014

How to Use Persuasive Words

February 14, 2014

Michael Stelzner on Capturing Emails and Committing to Quality

February 7, 2014

How to Nail Your Opening

January 24, 2014

How to Write a Magnetic Headline (in Under 15 Minutes)

May 18, 2012

Seth Godin on When You Should Start Marketing Your Product, Service, or Idea

May 11, 2012

How to Attract an Audience by Integrating Content, Social, and Search

March 30, 2012

Why You Should Build an Audience Before You Build a Business

March 16, 2012

How Chris Brogan Built His Content Platform

March 9, 2012

Jay Baer on How to Turn Interested Prospects into Lifelong Customers

March 2, 2012

A 30-Minute Copywriting Course from a Master of the Craft

February 24, 2012

The Path to a Legendary Copywriting Career

February 17, 2012

5 Tips for Affiliate Marketing Beginners

February 10, 2012

Why Not Sell Physical Stuff With Digital Media?

February 3, 2012

Whether You Call it Blogging or Not, Online Content Still Rules

January 27, 2012

Answers to the 3 Biggest Email Marketing Questions We Get

January 20, 2012

How to Newsjack Your Way to Free Media Exposure with David Meerman Scott

January 13, 2012

Steven Pressfield and the War of Work

November 18, 2011

The Strategy Behind the Copyblogger Redesign

November 11, 2011

7 Ways to Create an Email Marketing "Snowball Effect"

November 4, 2011

Warning: If You're Not a Privacy Nut, You're Losing Sales

October 28, 2011

The 3 Kinds of Writing That Builds a Business

October 21, 2011

The Art of Seductive Writing: A Conversation with Robert Greene

October 7, 2011

Why Content Marketing Doesn't Suck

September 30, 2011

Are You Weird Enough to Succeed at Content Marketing?

September 23, 2011

What Works With SEO Right Now and Why No One Does What You Want

September 16, 2011

Are You Flushing Your Marketing Down the Social Media Toilet?

September 11, 2011

Seth Godin on Blogging, Business Books, and Creating Content that Matters

September 2, 2011

The Return of Copyblogger Radio …

June 10, 2011

Answered: Your Most Burning Content Marketing Questions

June 3, 2011

How to Get All the Clients and Customers You Can Handle

May 20, 2011

Is Content Marketing Worth the Work?

May 13, 2011

How to Write Nearly Undeletable Emails

May 6, 2011

Is the Online Gold Rush Over?

April 22, 2011

The Art of Enchanting Online Marketing with Guy Kawasaki

April 15, 2011

The Market for Something to Believe in is Infinite: An Interview with Hugh MacLeod

April 8, 2011

How to Constantly Create Compelling Content

March 25, 2011

The Content Marketing Question You Need to Answer … Now

March 18, 2011

Good SEO is Simple. Really.

March 4, 2011

Did Social Media Kill the Marketing Star?

February 25, 2011

How to Write (and Execute) a Simple but Powerful Business Plan

February 17, 2011

How to Kick Groupon to the Curb and Become a Local Hero

February 3, 2011

Convert … Or Die

January 27, 2011

Attention: Is Your Headline Getting Any?

January 20, 2011

How to Craft Landing Pages that Work

January 13, 2011

Why Every Smart Business is in the Media Business

January 5, 2011

2011 Content Marketing Predictions

December 15, 2010

Tim Ferriss on How to Reinvent Yourself with Blog Marketing

December 8, 2010

The 6 Elements of an Influential Web Experience

December 1, 2010

Your Staggeringly Unfair Marketing Advantage

November 17, 2010

How to Get Some Action

November 10, 2010

The Foundation of All Marketing that Works

November 3, 2010

Introducing Copyblogger Radio

February 3, 2011

Convert … Or Die

“First prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you’re fired.”

~ Blake, Glengarry Glen Ross

Sometimes you’re on a sweet little vacation in Italy and you need to convert miles into kilometers.

Sometimes you’re smashing your thumb with a hammer doing some light roofing and you need to switch inches to centimeters.

If you’re in business (or sales, like the Glengarry boys above), and you want to stay alive, you need to find a way to regularly convert prospects into paying customers.

Conversion’s never an easy game to play, but it can be simple.

And it can be even simpler when you’ve got the right tools to work with …

In this episode Sonia and I discuss:

  • Why some of the most talented people on the planet are also the most broke
  • The wildly popular business model that can sink your business
  • How to find the people you need to be talking, writing, and selling to
  • The single communication method that will change your game
  • How to find an endless stream of in-demand business ideas and opportunities

Hit the flash player below to listen now:

Convert … Or DieRobert Bruce
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Want to discover the smartest ways to mix social media, content marketing, and SEO? We’ve got you covered with Internet Marketing for Smart People. It’s a FREE 20-part course and email newsletter that delivers the techniques and strategies you need to know as an online marketer.

Links from the Show:

  • Should Your Content Aim for Traffic or Conversion?
  • How to Take Your Landing Page From Good to Great
  • How to Get More Subscribers for Your Email List
  • 5 Landing Page Mistakes that Crush Conversion Rates
  • Why Getting Attention Won’t Make You Rich
  • What’s the Premise?

About the Author: Robert Bruce is Copyblogger Media’s Chief Copywriter and Resident Recluse.

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Comments

  1. Randy Kemp says

    February 3, 2011 at 10:24 AM

    Where is Sparkle town? Is this Barrows, Alaska? Fargo, North Dakota? Enlighten me!

    Great! I’m glad you defined conversion…since it can be an immediate sale, lead generation, etc…taking an action.

    And how many times should we ask for the sale? More than once?

    While I listened, I remembered Joe Sugarman and the blue blocker sunglasses. NASA couldn’t find a use for them….the people whom Joe asked about the glasses said to forget them – they will never make a profit. Yet he ignored them and made a fortune.

    Features and benefits? Sure! Benefits are the usually way to go. But what if your audience consists of electrical engineers? Or a group of rocket scientists? And you are selling a piece of high-tech equipment? They would also need features! They may be turned off by benefits. But it raises a good question. Why do big ad agencies sometimes miss the benefit angle?

    The use of imagination to visualize talking to the idea customer (i.e. Karen), is something Clayton Makepeace emphasized many times. Unfortunately, he recently retired his blog (i.e a few days ago).

    Thanks for sharing some good ideas. Say – where’s Sparkle Town?

    Randy

    Reply
    • Sonia Simone says

      February 3, 2011 at 11:07 AM

      Sparkle Town is my way of becoming a little less ransparent about where I live. I try not to make life *too* easy for web stalkers.

      Sugarman was a complete master of balancing features and benefits. Features aren’t bad, they just need to be accompanied by benefits. Even technical audiences need benefits — your lab will avoid time-wasting errors, your facility will experience X% less downtime, your team will meet its production quota.

      Most of the great old-style copywriters have a clearly visualized ideal customer. Dan Kennedy has said that his is Al Bundy (the character from Married with Children). Which explains a lot about why I don’t feel comfortable with his style, even though his information is usually very good … I’m not Al Bundy. I’m not the person he’s talking to.

      The more times you present an offer (ask for a sale), the more sales you will make. It needs to be balanced against people getting worn out from being overpitched, and there’s no single answer — it depends on you and your market.

      Reply
  2. Martyn Chamberlin says

    February 3, 2011 at 10:40 AM

    This podcast continues to amaze me guys. You’re so well versed in this stuff that it just oozes out of you, and it’s awesome.

    So Robert, did you finally come up with a headline that passed the Great Judge? This one looks like you. πŸ™‚

    And don’t worry Sonia, here in Oklahoma we’re in over our heads in snow. Like over a foot. And yesterday I spent about 2.5 hours shoveling snow.

    It’s fun Robert. You’re missing out. πŸ˜›

    Reply
    • Sonia Simone says

      February 3, 2011 at 11:08 AM

      We actually didn’t get a lot of snow — we just got a lot of cold. Brrrr! Warming up to a toasty 21 degrees right now, though.

      Reply
  3. Sonia Simone says

    February 3, 2011 at 11:09 AM

    (Second prize is a set of steak knives is my favorite sales quote ever, btw. Even more than coffee is for closers.)

    Reply
  4. Adam Smith says

    February 3, 2011 at 11:19 AM

    I love you guys! πŸ˜‰

    No really, where is the “love” button? πŸ˜‰

    I exactly asked Brian via twitter few days ago, what to sell and what to give for free…

    So as from what i understand you give solutions for free and give even better and sexier solutions for money? πŸ™‚

    By the way I found Sparkle town on google maps, it’s some where in the west coast…

    Reply
    • Sonia Simone says

      February 3, 2011 at 3:14 PM

      Dang, this should be our tag line:

      you give solutions for free and give even better and sexier solutions for money?

      Reply
      • Adam says

        February 3, 2011 at 3:18 PM

        You know, we always can discuss the copyright issues on that one… πŸ˜‰

        Ney, kidding i will keep it “copyleft” just for you. πŸ™‚

        Reply
  5. Teresa Miller says

    February 3, 2011 at 11:42 AM

    Great information! I especially liked the idea of creating an avatar… a specific individual with details about her life, and with a NAME.

    So often we feel like we are just sending information out to a nameless, faceless crowd. If we give them names and faces, our voice then changes. Suddenly we are speaking to someone real, which therefore makes us more real.

    Reply
  6. Tory Hughes says

    February 3, 2011 at 11:46 AM

    Appreciate you talking directly at this. I’m your poster child for this problem, temporarily.

    High points for me in your talk:

    – the reminder ‘your ideal customer has lots of money to pay for your services’.

    – targeting an audience that wants to buy something, not that just wants to feel good

    – remind them I am selling exactly what they now realize they want

    – not being clever or vague in the call to action.

    Very useful, friendly, direct lesson. Thank you so much, Sonia. This really hits the spot with actions I can implement right now, with my brand-new websites and a post to write today.

    Best to you

    ( BTW it was -14 here in Santa Fe last night too, all the way up to 0 by now, fahrenheit. )

    Reply
    • Sonia Simone says

      February 3, 2011 at 3:10 PM

      Tory, I’m always tickled when I see you here. (Will get to your email, honest.)

      -14 in Santa Fe, that’s just not right. Ptui.

      Reply
  7. Steve Averill says

    February 3, 2011 at 12:17 PM

    This is awesome as usual. It really comes down to getting over yourself, understanding the game and playing it. Just because you see through something doesn’t mean you are smart enough to execute. I love the papal talk metaphor – it’s so true! Got a lot out of this one. Thanks Bruce and Sonia!

    Reply
  8. Hashim Warren says

    February 3, 2011 at 12:50 PM

    I used to think that people would just convert if what I’m doing or offering is awesome enough.

    And true, I’ve had readers become employers and clients from my old blog. But that was over a span of 5 years and having one of the most popular blogs in my niche. It also happened by accident!

    Now that I’m trying to get people to convert on purpose, in much bigger numbers, in a much shorter time, I see that I have to learn about the science of persuasion.

    And it kind of sucks.

    So, being awesome isn’t enough? Now I have to be a politician? A marketer?

    What gets me comfortable with the whole idea is that I’m sure that I’m saving people’s careers. People get burnt out or discouraged and leave my industry all the time. The turnover is super high.

    I know that Career Green Light will help them be successful and get paid for their creativity. I just have to convert them.

    Reply
    • Brian Clark says

      February 3, 2011 at 12:55 PM

      Every human being is in the persuasion business, Hashim, just by living life. Some are just better than others. πŸ˜‰

      Reply
    • Sonia Simone says

      February 3, 2011 at 3:12 PM

      The good news is, the more awesome you have to offer, the less conversion you have to do. In the Third Tribe seminar we posted last week with Pam Slim, I talked a little about how even with a fairly clumsy close, I was able to get a really nice number of sales at a conference … because I stacked up enough awesome to get me through the clumsiness.

      And you’ll pick up techniques that will become second-nature before you know it. πŸ™‚

      Reply
  9. Jim Kukral says

    February 3, 2011 at 1:58 PM

    Such smooth voices. Felt like an NPR broadcast. Good info.

    Reply
    • Sonia Simone says

      February 3, 2011 at 4:01 PM

      Laughing. I always feel a disturbingly strong connection with the Delicious DIsh characters on SNL.

      Reply
  10. Natan says

    February 3, 2011 at 8:35 PM

    Great interview. Also,is it just me or is this the first year that the States experience the bulk of our Canadian winter? By the by, I love the idea of writing for an avatar. I’ll have to try that out.

    Reply
  11. Vaclav Gregor says

    February 4, 2011 at 6:26 AM

    Great interview. I have to say that most of the time the copyblogger radio is just an entertainment for me, but today I learned a lot about the conversion and how it works, thanks. Keep up this quality work.

    Greg

    Reply
  12. Joe :) says

    February 4, 2011 at 6:53 AM

    Ooh, you had dental references in this one – selling the allure of a sparkly smile. You’ve hit upon my industry’s weakness. So many of us are stuck in the “disease business” –peddling remedies and repairs. We haven’t translated our services into emotional transformations.

    Brilliant stuff. Loved the part of writing to an avatar to create intimacy and connection. Pope on a balcony… so funny because I’m guilty of that one.

    Joe πŸ˜€

    Reply
  13. Jef Menguin says

    February 4, 2011 at 6:55 AM

    Excellent podcast for today. Thank you for sharing your ideas on how to converts people into customers/clients.

    Reply
  14. Sathishkumar says

    February 4, 2011 at 7:44 AM

    Never heard such an interesting podcast with great information (well I am newbie here). The idea of creating an Avatar is what amuses me most. I am not into heavy business now, but I am in this online world to create a successful business. I hope following your ideas will help me to get what I want.

    Reply
  15. Ivin says

    February 4, 2011 at 9:14 AM

    ‘Why some of the most talented people on the planet are also the most broke’

    That’s a very interesting discussion point. I’ve been shouting into a cave for years hearing myself speak (reading my own stuff) and it’s frustrating writing for years and seeing no fruit from it. Only once you embrace IM, SEO, and the basic of blogging (commenting, forums and pillar content) would you see results. You gotta play the game by the rules. Nobody made them, it’s just the way it is.

    ‘He that doesn’t like playing with other plays alone’.

    Reply
  16. Marc Sokol says

    February 4, 2011 at 10:50 AM

    Thanks for the reminder to write for a single person. I often find myself writing as if I am leading a workshop rather than having a coffee with just one person. I’ll try to shift my style to instead imagining 1-1 conversations rather than with the group.

    Reply
  17. Nicholas says

    February 5, 2011 at 8:48 PM

    what ever happened to imfsp-radio-9 and imfsp-radio-10?

    Did i miss 2 episodes or did you skip them ?

    Reply
    • Brian Clark says

      February 5, 2011 at 8:53 PM

      We used different URLs for those shows. The quickest thing to do is check the iTunes or general feed links in the post to see everything.

      Reply
  18. Theresa Delgado says

    March 2, 2011 at 2:51 PM

    Sonia,

    Great examples of drilling down to the true “thing” that taking an action will create. The peace-of-mind you are trying to convey with benefits takes time to sort out, at least for me.

    Thanks to Copyblogger, I’m getting a doctorate in marketing!

    Reply
  19. Dan says

    June 3, 2011 at 11:14 PM

    In the podcast at around 7:20 you mentioned a comedian who tried to write a book, and then moved on to business websites. I couldn’t make out his last name or find someone on google. Who was it?

    Reply

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