Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You ByWP Engine

Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting.

Start getting more from your site today!

Rainmaker.FM

The Digital Commerce and Content Marketing Podcast Network

  • Home
  • Shows
  • Hosts
  • About
  • Home
  • Shows
  • Hosts
  • About
  • Member Area
  • Log In
Menu
  • Log In
  • Free Training
7-Figure Small with Brian Clark
Confessions of a Pink-Haired Marketer
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing
Get More Clients With Smarter Email Marketing
Hack the Entrepreneur
Members Only
Rainmaker.FM Elsewhere
Site Success: Tips for Building Better WordPress Websites
StudioPress FM
Technology Translated
The Digital Entrepreneur
The Missing Link
The Showrunner
The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience
Youpreneur with Chris Ducker
Zero to Book
The Digital Entrepreneur
hosted by Sean Jackson and Katy Katz

Is Creating Online Training Programs a Viable Business Model?

  • Social:
  • Link:
  • Embed:
https://rainmaker.fm/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/rainmaker-044.mp3
Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes
Previous Episode:How to Succeed in Online Education (On Your Own Terms) More Episodes Next Episode:The Two Components of The Perfect Online Business Model

All Episodes:

May 17, 2018

Stop Being Afraid and Start Building Your Business

May 10, 2018

Crazy Creative Ideas for Content Repurposing

May 3, 2018

The Creative Way to Use Video Marketing on LinkedIn

April 19, 2018

Is Blogging a Waste of Time?

April 12, 2018

The Smart Way to Grow Your Service Business Using Content Marketing

March 29, 2018

Rand Fishkin’s rise to fame…and fortune?

March 8, 2018

The Psychology Required to Successfully Grow Your Business

March 1, 2018

The Secret to Guest Blogging on Your Favorite Website

February 22, 2018

How to Make Money from Podcasting

February 15, 2018

Is Facebook Marketing Dead?

February 8, 2018

How to Build Meaningful Membership Communities

February 1, 2018

What Every Online Marketer Must Know about Google Analytics

January 25, 2018

Is Google AMP a Waste of Time?

January 18, 2018

The Ultimate Framework to Help You Achieve Your Goals in 2018

December 20, 2017

The 6 Top Online Marketing Trends for 2018

December 14, 2017

Why You Should Start a Digital Marketing Agency

December 7, 2017

Does Traditional PR Really Matter Anymore?

November 30, 2017

The Current State of Search, Social, and the Open Web in 2017

November 22, 2017

How to Protect Your Online Reputation When Disaster Strikes

November 7, 2017

Does Online Marketing Suck for Women?

October 26, 2017

Can Social Media Drive Sales, or Is It a Waste of Time?

October 19, 2017

How (and Why) You Should Sell Your Online Business

October 12, 2017

The 5 Things Your Customers Actually Want to Buy

September 28, 2017

The Essential Chatbot Resource for Online Entrepreneurs

September 21, 2017

The Smart Way to Build and Grow a Profitable Podcast

September 14, 2017

How to Build and Profit from a Hyperlocal Community Site

September 7, 2017

How to Handle Negative Online Reviews

August 24, 2017

The Biggest Challenge to Running an Online Business

August 17, 2017

The Secret to Becoming an Online Expert

August 10, 2017

Does Your Online Business Fill Your Life with Purpose?

August 3, 2017

How to Deal with the Stress of Running an Online Business

June 1, 2017

Emerging Online Marketing Trends for 2017

May 25, 2017

The Biggest Mistakes Online Entrepreneurs Make and How to Fix Them

May 18, 2017

Should Online Entrepreneurs Write a Book?

May 11, 2017

A Different Way to Think About Your Online Competition

May 4, 2017

How to Recruit the Best Talent for Your Online Business

April 27, 2017

How to Hire the Right Contractor or Employee for Your Online Business

April 20, 2017

The Essential Guide to Hacking the Growth of Your Online Business

April 13, 2017

How to Do Simple PPC Advertising for Your Online Business

April 6, 2017

A Simple Framework for Pricing Digital Goods

March 30, 2017

How to Use Amazon Publishing to Grow Your Online Audience

March 16, 2017

What Online Entrepreneurs Need to Know about Affiliate Marketing

March 9, 2017

Does Email Marketing Still Work?

March 2, 2017

Does SEO Still Matter?

February 23, 2017

Is WordPress the Right Solution for Building Your Online Business?

February 16, 2017

6 Business Insights that Could Radically Increase Your Online Engagement in 2017

February 9, 2017

Can Customer Insights Really Drive Innovation for Your Online Business?

December 15, 2016

Laura Roeder on Building a Business that Supports the Lifestyle You Love

December 8, 2016

Lessons on Business and Life from the ‘Zen Master of Marketing’

December 1, 2016

Just Because You Can, Doesn’t Mean You Should (Plus Other Life Lessons from Seth Spears)

November 17, 2016

How Becoming a Digital Entrepreneur Helped Jarmar Dupas Get His Life Right

November 10, 2016

Why Trusting Your Instincts Can Lead You to Your Passion

November 3, 2016

The Power of Not Being Stubborn

October 27, 2016

How One Successful Digital Entrepreneur Stays Entertained by Her Business

October 20, 2016

How to Create Impact That Endures (Instead of Ending Up in a Landfill)

October 13, 2016

How Will Falconer Stopped Trading Dollars for Hours and Found His Calling

October 6, 2016

Are One-on-One Connections the Key to Jumpstarting Your Online Business?

September 29, 2016

How Jay Baer is Navigating New Waters With His Latest Digital Product

September 22, 2016

The Upside of Setting Outrageous Goals

September 15, 2016

Sean McCabe’s Tried-and-True Techniques for Getting More Meaningful Work Done

July 28, 2016

Why You Should Build a Business That Shines a Light on Your Talents

July 21, 2016

How to Market Like a Magnet and Build Your Personal Brand

July 14, 2016

The Two Biggest Keys to Consistently Doing Work That Matters

July 7, 2016

How Joanna Penn Designed the Lifestyle (and Career) of Her Dreams

June 30, 2016

Is Your Email Marketing Leaving Money on the Table?

June 23, 2016

3 Simple Hacks for Better Copy and More Conversions in Less Time

June 16, 2016

Practical Advice on Turning the Challenges of Building Membership Communities Into Opportunities

June 9, 2016

Brian Clark is Doing … What?

June 2, 2016

Sonia Simone’s Secret to Starting the 1,000-Piece Jigsaw Puzzle of Building a Successful Business

May 26, 2016

Does Your Social Media Strategy Need a Mindset Shift?

May 19, 2016

Brian Clark’s Lessons From a Decade of Developing Successful WordPress Products

May 12, 2016

How Virtual Reality May Shape the Future of Digital Commerce

May 5, 2016

WordPress Product Development: Start with the Business Problem

April 28, 2016

The Myth of Set-it-and-Forget-It Marketing

April 21, 2016

Making This Common Mistake Could Kill the Profitability of Your Online Course

April 14, 2016

Why You (Still) Don’t Need a Mobile App That is Separate From Your Website

April 7, 2016

5 Key Concepts to Understand About Tracking, Testing, and Making Decisions

March 31, 2016

5 Compelling Reasons Why You Should Use Free Online Courses as Lead Magnets

March 24, 2016

A Rainmaker Case Study on Using the Access Approach to Drive Business Results

March 17, 2016

5 Benefits of the ‘Access’ Approach to Online Marketing

March 10, 2016

How Adaptive Websites Deliver an Exceptional Experience While Accelerating Profit

March 3, 2016

How Email (Still) Creates the Profit Engine of Your Digital Business

February 25, 2016

Secrets of a Six-Figure Online Course Builder

February 18, 2016

The 5 Elements of the Modern Marketing Website

February 11, 2016

Who Is a Digital Entrepreneur?

October 22, 2015

What is Digital Commerce?

October 15, 2015

Behind the Scenes: The Rebranding of Copyblogger Media

September 3, 2015

How to Create Legendary Content That Builds Your Business

August 20, 2015

6 Steps to Building an Audience That Builds a Business

August 13, 2015

How the Integration of Content and Commerce Creates a Winning Difference

August 6, 2015

Native Commerce: Media That Makes Real Money

July 30, 2015

Behind the Scenes: The Reimagining of Copyblogger.com

July 16, 2015

The Membership Imperative and the Persistence of Audio Content

July 2, 2015

Darren Rowse on the Intersection of Blogging and Digital Commerce

June 18, 2015

Three Subscription Revenue Models for Digital Content and Services

June 11, 2015

The Two Components of The Perfect Online Business Model

June 4, 2015

Is Creating Online Training Programs a Viable Business Model?

May 28, 2015

How to Succeed in Online Education (On Your Own Terms)

May 21, 2015

Behind the Scenes: Authority Rainmaker, the Next Wave of Rainmaker.FM Shows, and the Departure of Robert Bruce

May 14, 2015

Will Millennials Kill Email Marketing?

May 7, 2015

Does Audio Create Authority Faster Than Text?

April 30, 2015

A Much Better Revenue Model for Podcasting

April 23, 2015

How Online Courses Accelerate Any Business Model

April 16, 2015

How to Escape the Social Media Swindle

April 9, 2015

Why Every Great Website is a Membership Site

April 2, 2015

How to Become a Digital Media Showrunner

March 26, 2015

How to Start a Podcast Network

March 19, 2015

How to Build a Profitable Email List With Social Media Advertising

March 11, 2015

Why Copyblogger Media is Betting Big on Podcasting

March 2, 2015

Henry Rollins on the Art and Business of DIY Media

February 25, 2015

Three Misconceptions About Modern SEO That Confuse Content Marketers

February 16, 2015

How an Email Newsletter Publisher Built an Audience of 223,991 Subscribers

February 9, 2015

Has Social Media Killed Consumer Trust?

February 3, 2015

Split-Testing 101: How to Know Which Words Work

January 27, 2015

5 Traffic Strategies That Build Your Curation Audience

January 19, 2015

3 Ways to Grow Your Curated Email Newsletter Faster

January 14, 2015

Position Your Content Curation for Success With These 5 Essential Elements

January 7, 2015

Behind the Scenes: 2014 in Review and the Road Ahead

December 16, 2014

Seth Godin on Stepping Up and Making it Happen

December 11, 2014

Michael Hyatt on Building a Media Platform and Becoming a 10-Year Overnight Success

December 9, 2014

David Siteman Garland on the Infinite Scalability of Online Courses

December 1, 2014

Pat Flynn on Entrepreneurial Inspiration and His Profitable Content Strategy

November 25, 2014

Jay Baer on “Generosity Marketing” and the Power of Business Podcasting

November 19, 2014

How to Use Content Curation to Create a Recurring Revenue Business

November 12, 2014

7 Ways to Find a Topical Market that Will Fuel Your Digital Commerce Business

November 5, 2014

The Crucial Starting Point for Building a Digital Commerce Business

October 8, 2014

Behind the Scenes: The Launch, Membership Sites, and What Punk Rock has to do with Content Marketing

September 25, 2014

Keep Them Fascinated: How to Discover Your Winning Difference as a Content Marketer

September 2, 2014

The Key Element of 21st Century Persuasion

April 3, 2014

The New Rainmaker as Magical Mentor on the Buyer’s Journey

March 24, 2014

Behind the Scenes: How the New Rainmaker Strategy Evolves in Plain Sight

March 11, 2014

The Critical Thing You Need to Earn Targeted Traffic – Today, and into the Future

March 5, 2014

8 Ways a Digital Media Platform is More Influential than “Marketing”

February 19, 2014

Why the New Rainmaker is a Digital Media Producer

February 11, 2014

Behind the Scenes: How (and Why) New Rainmaker is Produced

February 4, 2014

How to Build a Lucrative Asset While You Make it Rain

January 28, 2014

Why a Personal Media Brand Beats “Marketing” Every Time

January 21, 2014

Why the Key to Business Success is Media, Not Marketing

June 4, 2015

Is Creating Online Training Programs a Viable Business Model?

The need (and desire) for on-demand education has intensified, and will only continue into the future. But can you really make a living from it?

To further our ongoing discussion about online education as a viable career and business model for content creators and entrepreneurs, I brought in a special co-host today. It’s Sonia Simone, Chief Content Officer of Copyblogger Media and my long-time co-conspirator in all things content marketing and online education.

In this 24-minute episode Sonia Simone and I discuss:

  • The prediction about online education that came true
  • Sonia’s move from freelance copywriter to course creator
  • The improbable sports training program that’s killing it
  • Membership sites for kids? (It’s all about the parents)
  • Other examples of “non-meta” training programs
  • A free webinar for creating online courses

Listen to The Digital Entrepreneur below ...

Is Creating Online Training Programs a Viable Business Model?Brian Clark
  • Social:
  • Link:
  • Embed:
https://rainmaker.fm/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/rainmaker-044.mp3
Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes

The Show Notes

  • Free Webinar: The 3 Reasons People Fail When Creating Products (scroll down)
  • Will Hamilton’s tennis education site
  • National Institute for the Clinical Application of Behavioral Medicine
  • Traditional Cooking School by GNOWFglins
  • YouthDigital’s Online tech courses for kids
  • Sonia Simone on Twitter
  • Brian Clark on Twitter
Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You ByWP Engine

Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting.

Start getting more from your site today!

The Transcript

Is Creating Online Training Programs a Viable Business Model?

Voiceover: This is Rainmaker.FM, the digital marketing podcast network. It’s built on the Rainmaker Platform, which empowers you to build your own digital marketing and sales platform. Start your free 14-day trial at Rainmaker.FM/Platform.

Brian Clark: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. I am Brian Clark, founder and CEO of Copyblogger Media. This week, instead of flying solo, I’ve decided to start at least a one-week tradition of having a rotating co-host. Today’s victim is Sonia Simone, chief content officer of Copyblogger Media, longtime co-conspirator way before we actually formed the company in 2010 — going back to Copyblogger, Teaching Sells, and all of that good stuff. Sonia, how are you doing today?

Sonia Simone: I am fantastic. Thank you for asking.

Brian Clark: It is wonderful to hear your velvety voice because you also have a great voice. That guy who also has a great voice …

Sonia Simone: That traitor.

Brian Clark: Yeah. I don’t know how many weeks I’m going to keep talking about him ditching me, but it could be quite a few.

Sonia Simone: I think you could milk it. I think you are not even close to saturating that.

Brian Clark: Yeah, I feel that way, too.

Sonia Simone: Yeah.

Brian Clark: It’s evergreen really.

Sonia Simone: It is.

Brian Clark: All right, so as you know, your Copyblogger post today linked to my last podcast. I was honored.

Sonia Simone: It did indeed. Yes, it did.

The Prediction about Online Education That Came True

Brian Clark: Online courses, online education and training — obviously, we always love to tell the story that how we met was you were one of the first people with your credit card in hand saying, “Go ahead and sell me something already,” back in 2007.

Sonia Simone: That’s right.

Brian Clark: That was Teaching Sells, our instructional design meets direct marketing uber course. Do you remember that it was actually that course where someone gave us a review and they said it was ‘Internet marketing for smart people.’

Sonia Simone: I do.

Brian Clark: Not as a compliment, but we took it as a compliment because we were like “Yeah! Smart people only, please.”

Sonia Simone: You know what? You’re right actually.

Brian Clark: Instead of feeling shame and dumbing it down, we actually co-opted that, created another course called Internet Marketing for Smart People, which I thought was so us.

Sonia Simone: It is us. It’s a little offensive, but not very offensive — snarky.

Brian Clark: If you’re playing the populous card, like a lot of the Internet marketing crowd does, because, of course, they’re going, “You can do it.”

Sonia Simone: Right, and we’re like, “You can do it … if you’re smart.”

Brian Clark: You ‘can’ do it — just like you can graduate from college — but maybe not if you can’t. It’s just amazing to revisit slightly to see the mainstreaming of this. I don’t like to sit there and say, “Hey, I called it.”

Sonia Simone: You did, though. You did call it, actually.

Brian Clark: It’s still one of those things where you’re right and you’re like, “Wow, I didn’t know I was going to be this right.”

Sonia Simone: I know. It’s true.

Brian Clark: It makes sense because on-demand — reacting to trends, to market, fluctuations, to disruptions — everything’s moving so quickly. I don’t think academia could keep up 10 years ago, much less now. That’s what’s really driving this, and it’s only going to accelerate. The whole concept in that Fast Company article — I don’t really like the terminology. I think it’s pretty weak. I think this futurist guy is dead on about this is a real gig. It is now, but only more so by the time we get to say 2020, 2025. The whole concept of the ‘freelance professor,’ how does that strike you?

Sonia Simone: I don’t love ‘freelance professor’ for a lot of reasons. I like your old term ‘entreproducer’ because I think you want to not forget that this is about a business. It is about teaching, but absolutely, equally, it is about business and about producing a result somebody else wants. Also, maybe because it’s just because too many people called me ‘Little Professor’ when I was a child. I have trauma from that, so that could be the source.

Brian Clark: Is that why you call me ‘Professor Clark’ when I get too esoteric?

Sonia Simone: It is. That’s right.

Brian Clark: That’s not a compliment, either — just in case there’s any confusion.

Sonia Simone: No, you have my story. That’s my story.

Brian Clark: Yeah, it is a business, and I did like that he said you need course materials, a plan, and a marketing plan. That’s what really set me off on this. You’re not going to get away from understanding the marketing component of it. The big thing about Teaching Sells, which was amazing to me when I was creating it, was that the intersection of direct marketing principles — which everything you sell online is direct marketing. Don’t think about junk mail. That’s not what it means. It means direct to the consumer, or customer, or client.

The principles, especially of copywriting, are applied in instructional design because that’s what gets adult learners to pay attention, to retain information, to stick with it — all of these things. Even if you say, “I don’t want to be a marketer,” or “I don’t care about selling,” creating great training is a component of exactly the same elements of retaining an audience and their attention in order to actually get some value out of it. It really is doing a great job of teaching people that builds your business in the long-term.

Sonia Simone: Yeah, most, maybe all smart marketers and salespeople have known for a long, long time, well over 100 years, that in order to have something that is marketable or sellable, you need to have a transformation that you can offer the person you’re selling to, while teaching has the transformation baked into it. The whole point of teaching is to create a transformation. That’s one of the reasons it’s such a strong model. It’s very easy to explain to somebody, “I am going to teach you to do something you want to know how to do.”

Brian Clark: Also something we talk about a lot, ‘baking in’ — it’s not just knowledge. It’s the benefits.

Sonia Simone: The benefits of knowledge, yeah.

Brian Clark: Guess what? Those are the same benefits that go on a sales page.

Sonia Simone: Yeah.

Brian Clark: You really can’t separate the two. I always was proud of Teaching Sells and how well it integrated it together because humans just naturally compartmentalize things. “This is that, and this is the other.” No, it’s really one thing, and it’s all related anyway.

Sonia Simone: Yeah.

Brian Clark: You and I have created many courses together. I still remember that time we created that freelance X Factor course, and I had to rent a room in Durango, Colorado, because I was there for the summer. My kids were little maniacs running around the place we actually were staying in, so in order to have quiet …

Sonia Simone: You were in a closet in an office building or something crazy.

Brian Clark: I know. But, hey, we got it done.

Sonia Simone: Yeah, that was a good course.

Sonia’s Move from Freelance Copywriter to Course Creator

Brian Clark: Many years of education courses and all that. I want to talk to you a little bit, because you created in the time that we’ve known each other — this was before Copyblogger Media, though — you created your own course called Remarkable Marketing Blueprint. Is that correct?

Sonia Simone: That’s right.

Brian Clark: Oh I got it. You did that all by yourself. I remember you just went off, and then a long time later it was done.

Sonia Simone: I did, yes.

Brian Clark: Talk about that process as tackling what was a really big project. That was a good-sized course.

Sonia Simone: It was. What I wanted to do when I left the corporate world — and I have talked to other places about my serious post-corporate traumatic syndrome — I left the corporate world. I needed to make money. My husband stays at home full-time with my son, so it was all on me. My idea was I was going to be a freelance writer. That was okay.

I did moderately well at being a freelance writer, but I hated the ‘you don’t kill, you don’t eat’ mentality. It was not emotionally a great fit for me where I had to close all these new clients, and I was always prospecting. It wasn’t well-suited to me, so I did take Teaching Sells. I was one of those people who messes up your server by refreshing the order page two times a minute trying to wait for it to open — don’t do that, guys. It’s annoying.

I put this course together to teach people some of the things that I had, had to teach myself in order to be a good marketing writer — how to market stuff, how to sell things if you’re not the $10 million marketing budget company. It was revolutionary for me. It completely transformed who I was as an independent professional. Instead of constantly prospecting and talking to people who weren’t ready to move forward and closing people and all this stuff, I said, “Here’s a thing. Here’s what it will do for you. Here’s what to do next.” A bunch of people bought it, and then they gave me whatever it was, $27 a month.

It was a great deal. It really changed my business. It really changed my relationship with my customers. They created this whole identity. They called themselves the ‘Remarkables,’ and the first group were the ‘Remarkable and Originals.’ That was an identity that they had that many of them carry.

There will be people listening to this podcast who’ll say, “I’m a Remarkable.” It was really a great experience professionally and personally in terms of satisfaction, in terms of my ability to help people. It was just cool, and fun, and awesome.

Brian Clark: I remember the community you built there …

Sonia Simone: It was intense.

Brian Clark: … was rapidly pro-Sonia.

Sonia Simone: As they should be.

Brian Clark: You have that effect on lots of people. You come across so nice, but behind the scenes …

Sonia Simone: Brian knows how evil I really am, but I do get [inaudible 0:11:22] very nice.

Brian Clark: When Sonia goes on a rant, just duck. What was the hard part about it? Again, it seems to me the content was so right up your alley. Was producing it the biggest challenge?

Sonia Simone: Producing it was great. I had to get my act together, but that was fine. That was all good. The site was really tough. I’m still so grateful to this day for the wonderful developer who was able to help me out with it. But even so, I think it took us about two months to get the site together before I could make any money. I was spending money.

Brian Clark: This was WordPress plus plugins?

Sonia Simone: WordPress plus proprietary membership plugins was what this was.

Brian Clark: Yeah, we won’t name which one.

Sonia Simone: No, we won’t name. There were a couple at the time. They all had issues, and I encountered the issues. It took a long time to get it together. During that time, I was spending money developing the site, but I wasn’t getting any revenue. We had security issues. Some kind of creepy Russian hackers were putting porn into my member library. I don’t know why. To this day, I’m not sure why — “Why are you doing that?” — but they did. That was great. We were playing whack-a-mole with security.

It didn’t work the way I wanted it to work. There was a lot of manual work to make sure that, if people left the course, like stopped paying for it, that we would stop giving them access to it. Just things like that, that today we have some tools — you know, cough, Rainmaker Platform — that make that really easy. It was not easy.

Brian Clark: That’s such a familiar story. When it was just me and Tony — and then later you joined us with Teaching Sells — Tony was gluing together, duct taping. No one would ever tell me just how fragile these sites were. They looked pretty, but they were built out of all these different parts. Also, in the original version of Teaching Sells, remember how Tony had to try to teach people to build an LMS out of what was it, Joomla and Moodle?

Sonia Simone: Moodle, right.

Brian Clark: Later we could finally get it done with WordPress, pretty much with the stuff you use, but of course, there were issues. People were always asking us, “Oh my gosh, you’ve taught me things that I didn’t even imagine I could know about creating instructional content and about marketing it. Just give me the technology platform.”

Sonia Simone: Right.

Brian Clark: That’s going to take a while. In fact, it took, oh, I can’t even do the math, seven years.

Sonia Simone: Yeah. There have been platforms, and those platforms had issues because it’s hard. It turns out when we set out to build it, it’s like, “Oh, this is actually really hard.”

Brian Clark: It took a while. It either takes a ton of money or it takes time. We were bootstrapped, so it took some time. Anyway, I mentioned that last week. At least, at this point, Rainmaker takes care of those headaches, and now it’s become essentially a part of the Teaching Sells experience that we’ll be doing next month.

Sonia Simone: Yes.

Brian Clark: Anyway, I think one objection people have when they hear us talk about creating the marketing blueprint, or a Copyblogger course, or even the New Rainmaker training course that is a lead generator for Rainmaker.FM. Like, “Yeah, that’s fine. You’re selling courses, marketing about marketing, blogging about blogging, content marketing about … ” — you know, very meta.

That is something we’ve been dealing with for a long time. Sometimes it’s frustrating to always feel you’re being self-referential, but the real opportunities, business is going to remain a very big on-demand training realm.

I remember back in 2007 when we talked about the three big areas. They were business, personal development, and technology. I think that remains the case today. There’s so many other topical areas that people are making not only money, but a living, a good living.

Sonia Simone: A good living, yeah.

Brian Clark: Yeah. You’re like the curator of online education and membership sites that shouldn’t work — or at least that they’re real topics for real people that don’t involve this meta aspect to it. Give us a few of your favorite examples.

The Improbable Sports Training Program That’s Killing It

Sonia Simone: One of my favorites, he was a member of one of our early communities, The Third Tribe. That was the first marketing thing he ever bought, so I claim all credit for his success. That’s not fair or reasonable. I’m just making a joke. His name is Will Hamilton, and he has a site called FuzzyYellowBalls.com.

The thing I love about this site is it was a long-time truism in direct response that you could sell all kinds of things to golfers, but there was no money in tennis. You could not do tennis education. You couldn’t do tennis direct response because tennis players didn’t spend money. Will’s doing unbelievable things with this site. It’s opened all kinds of doors. He makes a great living off this business.

Brian Clark: It’s always the one that I’m like really? Tennis?

Sonia Simone: Yeah. Since Will showed it could be done, I think that other people have come up as well in tennis, but really remarkable story with that.

Other Examples of ‘Non-Meta’ Training Programs

Sonia Simone: Another one was one of my Remarkables, a woman named Wardee Harmon. She put together a natural cooking site. She had a real interest in — very on-trend today, she was ahead of the curve at that time — organic food and respecting the dignity of the food.

Brian Clark: I wouldn’t be surprised if my wife was a member.

Sonia Simone: Yeah, and if she’s not, she should be because it is so up her alley. But she did this natural cooking class online, and we all thought, “Well that’s a good idea.” From the beginning, we were all a little startled at how well it did. People were waiting for it. She was an early presence, and she just destroyed it with that.

My friend Ruth heads an institute called the National Institute for the Clinical Application of Behavioral Medicine, so straight-up, hardcore Internet marketing, right? They do extremely well with courses, and Ruth — I know Ruth, she’s a friend of mine — has a very businesslike approach to teaching courses in behavioral medicine. She just did a course on meditation with Tara Brach, who’s a wonderful meditation practitioner.

They just do really, really well with these courses with a businesslike approach to teaching. It’s a combination, in their case, of professional development for therapists, but also, a lot of non-medical professionals like me will take these courses because we want to know more about trauma or the science of the brain or meditation.

Membership Sites for Kids? (It’s All About the Parents)

Sonia Simone: I’ll wrap up with one that my son encountered that was very cool, which is a company called Youth Digital. They teach kids my son’s age — my son’s almost 10 — how to code in Java in order to make Minecraft modifications.

Brian Clark: Yeah, my kids, I don’t know if it’s the same course, it may be. But both of my kids all of a sudden have figured out that you can make the stuff that is Minecraft.

Sonia Simone: Right.

Brian Clark: They’re just fascinated by it. It’s like Legos in digital world.

Sonia Simone: Yeah. That’s a real case where people would tell you, “Oh, you can’t make any money with Minecraft education because there’s so many YouTube videos.” These guys, I don’t have any connection to them other than my kid is a junky for this course. He can’t wait to get home and start learning Java, but it’s very well done. It’s done for kids. It’s got great sense of humor. It’s comprehensive. They have good support, and they’re just selling the heck out of this course. I think it’s $200 a pop for something for kids, so kids can play with a toy.

Brian Clark: It’s educational and that type of purchase — this is valid actually because learning to code is awesome — but we all bought Baby Einstein CDs to make us feel better about parking the kids somewhere. You’re selling to the parents.

Sonia Simone: Yes, exactly. You’re saying, “No, it’s a good thing that they spend all day every day on Minecraft. It’s education.”

Brian Clark: I will say that out of all the games my kids try to play, Minecraft is actually probably the best for them.

Sonia Simone: Yeah.

Brian Clark: I’m telling myself that story.

Sonia Simone: Yes, I am, too. I’m right there with you.

Brian Clark: Alright, I don’t know, Sonia. You being on here made this very easy. In fact, easier than Robert. Now I’m going to just change my story and say good riddance to Mr. Bruce. I may just hit up Sonia Simone. You’re like, “Wait, what?! You’re giving me more work to do?”

Sonia Simone: Bring it, bring it.

Brian Clark: We’ll see. If I can’t find other victims, though, you’re going to be my default.

Sonia Simone: I’ll be the default victim. That seems congruent with my general role in the company.

A Free Webinar for Creating Online Courses

Brian Clark: So you and Chris Garrett have a webinar coming up. Is that related to …

Sonia Simone: Yeah, the webinar, it is an educational webinar designed to give you what you need to know to become a customer. I’m not going to hide that. That would be silly. It’s a webinar about the things that we have seen — Chris also was an early Teaching Sells customer — but we have been teaching people for quite a few years now how to do this.

It’s a webinar-based on some of the things we’ve seen people do that slow them down — so mistakes people make when they’re trying to build an online product or an online service. The things people do that make it very unlikely that they’re going to be able to have this popular, successful, easy, fun, sustainable business. We’re going to be talking about the mistakes people make when creating products online. It’s going to be, well, it’s coming up, so it’ll be June 16th at noon Eastern.

Brian Clark: Well, we’ve got still a couple of weeks, but we will put a link to that in the show notes, so you can sign up from there. That sounds pretty interesting because the webinar, of course, is going to give you a lot of high-value content with respect to things to avoid, especially if this is your first rodeo in this arena.

Sonia Simone: Right, right.

Brian Clark: Whether you decide to go with Teaching Sells or not, it’s going to be solid, but of course, I’m sure that the benefits of the whole course will be demonstrated at some point.

Sonia Simone: Exactly.

Brian Clark: All right, Sonia, thank you so much for coming. Enjoy the rest of your day, and to all of you out there, thanks for tuning in. If you have a chance to drop by iTunes and give me a review or a rating, you can even talk about how much cooler Sonia is than me. I will take it as long as it’s on this show. Thank you very much, Sonia.

Sonia Simone: Thanks. It was fun. Thank you.

Never Miss New Shows and Episodes on Rainmaker.FM

Get the best of the Rainmaker.FM network in a single weekly email, along with two weeks
of free training that will change the way you think about online marketing ...

Free Registration

You might also like...

Rainmaker.FM Elsewhere

Jerod Morris on the Go and Grow Podcast

Listen to episode
The Digital Entrepreneur

Who Is a Digital Entrepreneur?

Listen to episode
7-Figure Small with Brian Clark

Why Don’t Some Online Courses Sell?

Listen to episode
The Showrunner

No. 101 Showrunner 101 (Back to Basics)

Listen to episode
Youpreneur with Chris Ducker

How to Put Your Email Marketing Funnel on Steroids, with Pat Flynn

Listen to episode
The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience

How Sarah Stodola (Author of ‘Process: The Writing Lives of Great Authors’) Writes

Listen to episode

Comments

  1. Loz James says

    June 4, 2015 at 3:48 PM

    Hi Brian and Sonia

    Really great episode – there’ a great warmth between you and it’s heartening to hear you singing the praises of selling online training while I’m just building my first membership site 🙂

    Best wishes

    Loz

    Reply
  2. Hashim Warren says

    June 5, 2015 at 3:19 PM

    More Sonia and Brian? Yes, please

    There a chemistry there that’s really fun to listen to. Feels like i’m eavesdropping while you guys are at a bar.

    Reply
  3. Tracy Morris says

    June 7, 2015 at 6:04 PM

    Fantastic, you two! I’m in the process of building my first online training site…feels like this episode was tailor made for me!

    Reply
  4. Daniel Chohfi says

    June 8, 2015 at 10:59 AM

    Great show! The chemistry is awesome (although I’d love to see Mr. Brian + Mr. Robert + Ms. Sonia).

    Reply
  5. Chris says

    June 11, 2015 at 10:36 AM

    Brian,

    You’re right in my wheelhouse with this and last week’s podcasts. I was a high school teacher for eight years before leaving to start my own copywriting business.

    I’m living everything you’re talking about lately.

    Your thinking about education and marketing are so spot on. It’s refreshing to hear someone talking about these things in a new, exciting way. For so long, a handful of people have been shouting into the dark about this, but we seem to have finally reached a point where others are actually listening. Thanks for this!

    Reply
  6. Helena Denley says

    June 12, 2015 at 5:27 AM

    The most unexpected thing came out of listening to this podcast – thank you Brian & Sonia for mentioning the Java for Minecraft training course.

    I went searching for it this week for my 7 year old son and have just purchased it this evening (his very first e-course).

    He is thoroughly engrossed and it’s incredible watching the training videos with him & how they use just the right language to hook him in.

    Learning for him and for me.

    Reply
  7. Bonnie David says

    June 12, 2015 at 6:43 PM

    Thanks very much Sonia for mentioning Tara Brach. I am a huge fan of her work. She blends psychotherapy with Buddhist Meditation. Speaking of online education, how cool would it to create meditation courses online! Thanks again Brian for always sharing your wisdom. I benefit each time I listen.

    Reply
    • Bonnie David says

      June 12, 2015 at 6:45 PM

      Typo: Speaking of online education, how cool would it be to create meditation courses online!

      Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You ByWP Engine

Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting.

Start getting more from your site today!

Copyright © 2023 Rainmaker Digital, LLC. Powered by the Rainmaker Platform.

Privacy Policy  ·  Refund Policy  ·  Cookie Policy  ·  Terms of Service  ·  Contact