Showrunner Short: Live Reaction from Podcast Movement 2015

The Transcript

Showrunner Short: Live Reaction from Podcast Movement 2015

Voiceover: Rainmaker FM is brought to you by The Showrunner Podcasting Course, your step-by-step guide to developing, launching, and running a remarkable show. Registration for the course is open August 3rd through the 14th, 2015. Go to ShowrunnerCourse.com to learn more.

Jerod Morris: Hey there, fellow Showrunner, Jerod here. We’ve got a special Showrunner Short episode for you today.

We weren’t necessarily planning on doing this one, but yesterday, while Jonny and I were at Podcast Movement in Fort Worth, Texas, we were milling around in the exhibit hall waiting for Sarah Koenig’s presentation, and we just decided to bust out the H6 and started talking about what we had learned from the conference. So an entire episode of The Showrunner was the result, with live listener questions and podcast recommendations all included.

We figured we’d get this out to you as quickly as possible. That’s why it is coming today, the day after the conference ended. It gives us a chance, also, to remind you that The Showrunner Podcasting Course re-opens today. It’s going to be open today, August 3rd, all the way through August 14th, so go to ShowrunnerCourse.com. Check it out, and we hope to see you inside.

With that said, here is the impromptu Showrunner Short Podcast Movement Edition. Enjoy, everybody.

Hey, everybody, this is Jerod Morris. I am here live at Podcast Movement 2015. I’m here in the exhibit hall, walking around, looking at all the great exhibits. There’s many great conversations going on. I’m going to try and find some interesting people to talk to, see if we can get some interesting insight here. Oh, look, here’s a guy. He looks pretty interesting. Maybe let’s talk to him real quick and get some of his thoughts about podcasting. Would you state your name for us, sir?

Jonny Nastor: My name is Jon Nastor.

Jerod Morris: Jon Nastor, you look familiar. Have we met before?

Jonny Nastor: No. Well, I think we met yesterday over breakfast.

Jerod Morris: I think we did, yeah. We should host a show together. What do you think?

Jonny Nastor: Really? Yeah, let’s do it. Is this episode 1?

Jerod Morris: This can be episode 1, yes.

Jonny Nastor: Or is this, as they say, episode 00?

Jerod Morris: Actually, this is probably going to be episode 20 or maybe 21 of The Showrunner. So you all can hear the ambiance in the background. I’m actually recording this with an H6, just actually talking directly into the H6 — which is kind of an interesting way to record. Hopefully, we get some good audio out of it.

I know that we’re getting some good information, inspiration, education here at the conference. Is there anything that has stood out to you in terms of a lesson, a tactic, a mentality, anything? Like the number one thing that you’re taking away from this?

The Big Takeaway from Jordan Harbinger’s Presentation About Being the “Gatekeeper” for Your Audience

Jonny Nastor: Whoa, that’s epic. I just saw Jordan Harbinger from Art of Charm talk about interviewing, and he was really talking about ownership of your show. He said something that was really, really interesting: your audience doesn’t have a voice, so you have to, hopefully, provide that voice for them — meaning you have to ask the questions that they would want to be asking when they’re listening to your show. If you find that the answers you’re getting are not what your audience would want because they’re not what you want, then you have to just get rid of that show. And I’m totally for that. He’s like, “You are the gatekeeper. Until you start to care, nobody else is going to care.”

Jerod Morris: So I’m curious, with your experience doing Hack the Entrepreneur, and obviously, you don’t need to name names or pick out specific shows, in hindsight, are there any instances you would’ve dealt with differently, having this advice from Jordan? Obviously, it will probably affect what you do in the future, but are there any specific instances in the past that you look back on and say, “Yeah, I could’ve done that in that instance”?

How Jordan’s Advice Would Have Helped Jonny Two Weeks Ago During an Interview That Wasn’t Going Well

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, about two weeks ago actually, I did an interview of a very popular author and speaker, and he asked to be on my show. When he came on, he was just kind of ignorant, didn’t care that he was on the show, even though he asked specifically to be on the show, and was just doing a hundred other things and giving me totally nonsense answers. I cut it short at 15 minutes but didn’t tell him why. Then, literally, we hung up, I deleted the episode, and that was it.

During it, I should’ve just said, “No, we’re stopping this. This isn’t going to work. You do not want to provide any value to my audience like I told you, you had to. Therefore, you’re not holding up your end of the bargain, and this is over. I thank you for your time.”

The Birth of ‘Smack the Entrepreneur’

Jerod Morris: Can I offer an unsolicited idea for a new sister show to Hack the Entrepreneur?

Jonny Nastor: A new sister show?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, so here’s my idea. For these episodes that aren’t going very well, you stop the interview in the middle. But you still publish it, and you call it ‘Smack the Entrepreneur.’ So as soon as it starts going bad, there’s just a smack sound, and then the interview ends.

Jonny Nastor: A smack sound and then, “And that’s the smack.”

Jerod Morris: Yeah. Then you pull out the thing that they said was that so dumb and worthless …

Jonny Nastor: And just repeat it for like 30 minutes. Just to tell people to turn it off. This is pretty good actually.

Jerod Morris: That would be awesome. Okay. I like this. I like this idea.

The Essential Power of Excitement and a Feeling of Ownership for Your Project

Jerod Morris: So, what you said — and I love that, and I wish I had seen that session — that’s a theme that we’re hearing. He’s talking about ownership and being that person that is the advocate for the audience. Aisha Tyler, during her keynote, hit an idea like that. She talked about the reason why she loves podcasting so much is because it’s her thing. Like this is hers.

The most fun that I’ve had in this whole event is having one-on-one conversations with people where you see their enthusiasm coming out because they’re getting ready to start a show — or they’ve started it, and they’re having this realization of this thing is theirs. They are running this. This is their show. It’s their thing. There’s a special type of enthusiasm, empowerment, that you get when something is yours.

It’s your vision. You will rise and fall based on your willingness to work and your ability to execute the vision and to articulate it to other people. I love that about this conference. You see all these people who are doing that with their own shows. There’s an incredible enthusiasm that goes with it.

Jonny Nastor: Absolutely, I agree with you fully on the enthusiasm part, but the enthusiasm doesn’t come just from owning the show. The enthusiasm has to come from what it is you’re creating. If you’re doing interviews — Roman Mars said it, Marc Maron said it, Jordan Harbinger said it — don’t go after a niche that you think is good to monetize or is a good place for you because you cannot fake excitement. You can’t fake excitement.

It might sound ridiculous to a lot of people, but the conversations I get the most excited about with anybody is if I can just talk business with smart people doing smart, cool things. That just excites me. Like I literally, I can’t record an interview past 7 o’clock at night or something because I won’t sleep all night. I’m just too worked up and excited, and I’m just like, “Oh my god, this is amazing.” You have to do that.

It’s just so essential because that’s where that excitement comes from. It doesn’t come from just owning the show, but you shouldn’t own a show that doesn’t excite you. There’s an audience for the most ridiculous thing that excites you out there. The horse guy — 50,000 downloads an episode he’s getting. He’s talking only about horses to horse people. I didn’t know there was that many horse people.

If you’re into knitting, if you’re into fishing, if you’re into sports, if you’re into business, don’t go into it because it’s a big, massive market. Go into it only if you’re excited. That excitement makes you authentic. It makes you genuine. It makes your audience respect you. It makes you connect with them and with your guests on a level that takes conversations to different places.

Jerod Morris: Well, that’s why, when we talk about the essential elements of a remarkable audience experience, the first one is authenticity. What’s the first element of authenticity? Know yourself. Understand what you’re excited about, what you’re passionate about.

I think you’re right. It’s not just that people have their own thing. It’s that they have their own thing that they’re enthusiastic about. This thing that they own and that they run allows their enthusiasm to just run wild and be unleashed and unlocked.

A lot of times, if we’re working for someone else or doing something that we have to do, we don’t necessary feel. But people who are starting shows because they want to, they’re driving it, and their enthusiasm is driving it, I’ve talked with people where they’ve even said that it’s given them this new enthusiasm they’ve never had before. I’ve loved that about this.

How Jonny Rocked His Panel on Sponsorships (The Power of Building Relationships and, Yes, Being Human)

Jerod Morris: Something else that I loved was the panel that you were on about sponsorships. It was a really smart panel. A lot of great information, and we were just talking about this before, a lot of it went a bit over the heads of the audience. They weren’t necessarily at the Midroll level, or they weren’t as big as a Pat Flynn, for example. I thought your presence on that panel was great because people were about to relate with you, what you have gone through, and what you’ve actually done with your sponsorships, and I really like that.

Do you want to distill that idea down? Again, we’ve talked about this before, but to remind people, your big idea about sponsorships, you summed it up in about five words: build relationships and be human — which I thought was great.

Jonny Nastor: It really just is that, especially when you have a newer show and a show that is growing an audience. First of all, you have to monetize at some point. You have to make money if you’re going to keep doing this. It’s business in that way. You’re going to want to bring on helpers. You need to not pay for all of that stuff out of your own pocket.

You should be monetizing as soon as you can. But don’t monetize before your audience is ready for it, and you’ll know this. To get your audience ready for that, you have to just nourish your audience. Nourish them, and just be human to them. Absolutely respond. Get them to talk to you. Get them to ask you questions. Talk. Make them know that you are not there for your sponsor. You’re there for your audience.

Then, when you do go to approach sponsors, find sponsors that are only going to work really well with your audience. Your audience will appreciate it. Your sponsor will appreciate it. Then, just between that transactions you, and the better connection you can make with that, then you make more money from it. That’s just how it works.

Everyone here is like, “50,000 downloads an episode before you can get a sponsor.” It’s like, “No, it’s total crap. I would not have a sponsor if that was the case.” I’ve had a sponsor since my sixth week doing it. It’s because I was honest with my sponsor. They knew where I was at. They knew where I was going. Then, they just wanted to be part of it and take a risk on it, and I wanted to take a risk on it.

We did it, and we worked together. You can do this. I gave more than you would normally give. I gave spots on the show. I gave spots on the website. I gave spots in a newsletter. You can do these things. Be creative. It’s business in that way.

You’ve got to sell them on an idea, but then also don’t be the kind of person that just goes and tries to make a one-off hit and like, “Oh, I just got $1,000 from a sponsor for two episodes.” It’s like, “Well, you made $1,000, but you know probably deep down inside that they’re not going to get $1,100 value out of that, or $1,200 or $2,000. Therefore, they’re never going to buy ad spots from you again. So does that help you, or could you have gotten $100 for an episode? They would’ve loved it, and they would’ve bought, say, 50 spots and then 50 spots, and do this for the next four or five years. And now, all of a sudden, you went from $1000, now you make $4500 off of this one sponsor.”

That’s a relationship. That’s how you build them. You have to make sure that you’re not trying to take more than you can possibly give. You have to know that. Don’t lie what your audience is. Don’t do any of that stuff. Really try to make the ad spots good. You have to work it. It’s not just making the sale of the ad.

Then you have to really make sure that they get the numbers that they need because it’s business for them, too. Although it’s a relationship, the business is based on the relationship. You got to really try and nourish it and really try and give way more. If they spend $1,000, they have to make at least $1,050 back or else they won’t do it again. Hopefully, they can make $1,500 or something, but you have to figure that out. You have to work with it. You have to just be a person.

Quick Hit Takeaways from Keynote Presentations by Pat Flynn, Roman Mars, John Lee Dumas, Lou Mongello, Aisha Tyler, and Marc Maron

Jerod Morris: So some other quick-hit takeaways from some of the keynotes. The guys who are running Podcast Movement did a great job of getting some great keynote speakers.

Pat Flynn’s was great and hilarious when he had the disembodied voice of Chris Ducker. That was awesome. But what I loved about Pat’s was the vulnerability and the self-deprecation. He literally played the audio from his first episode, which I think is great for people to remember that, “Hey, look where Pat Flynn is and what he’s done. And, oh yeah, just like you, that guy’s first episode is one that he listens to and cringes.” I thought it was a great leadership by example in terms of how to be candid and self-deprecating with your audience in an authentic way. I loved that.

I loved what Roman Mars said. Well, number one, I loved just how he took us through the production of 99% Invisible, which is insane, the process that they go through. What I really loved about what he said is one of his big keys in terms of making podcasting a career is serving the audience. He made it very clear that part of serving the audience is remembering that you are part of your audience, and you have to serve yourself.

The only positive reinforcement and/or profitability that you may get from producing your show is the pride of producing something great and to remember that and really take pride in the production value and just in putting out something quality for the quality itself — independent of if it will ever make money. And I love that, that idea of serving the audience.

Marc Maron was great. I thought his focus on listening as the vehicle to a great interview and his transition going from his first hundred episodes of basically using them to selfishly work out his own emotional issues and then to becoming a better interviewer.

Then, of course, Sarah Koenig’s keynote where she revealed the truth about the story of Adnan was just incredible. Can you believe that she ended it like that?

Jonny Nastor: I don’t even know what we’re talking about.

Jerod Morris: That’s because that actually hasn’t happened yet. We are recording this right before going into the closing keynote. I was just trying to see if you were paying attention.

Jonny Nastor: No, I am. I had a quote from Roman in here. I’ve been taking all of my quotes, so I was trying to find it. But I couldn’t find it carefully enough without you thinking I was texting somebody.

Jerod Morris: That’s okay. You don’t even know who Sarah Koenig is or what Serial is anyways, so that joke was lost on you.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, you’re right. Exactly. I actually didn’t know who Roman Mars was, but he was amazing. His presentation was great, and he was so right about it. I loved how the whole put as much production into your ad spots as you do into everything else in the show to make it better for your audience — because it’s all about your audience. If your audience hates it, they’re going to leave. Once they leave, you’re not going to get a sponsor again. It’s kind of essential. Then Marc Maron was just amazing.

I liked how he also did mention that he has 25 years in the media business. He didn’t just start interviewing, and like, “Oh, I’m just going to go in and talk to people.” It’s like, “I knew a whole bunch of really smart, famous people. And I had been doing this, having these conversations for a long time. I just started to record them.” Whereas somebody who doesn’t have 25 years experience, I find sometimes they don’t want to put that prep work in. They don’t want to do the time.

Or what did Roman say? The one thing he said, which kind of alludes to this, was every single one of us, it’s all different for all of us, but we all have a certain amount of bad radio within us. There’s no way around it. Every single person has a certain amount of bad radio in us. Pat, in his, he played his bad radio. I have a podcast. You can go search Jon Nastor in iTunes. I have a podcast that you guys don’t know about that was a couple of years ago, and it’s terrible audio.

Jerod Morris: A link to every episode will be in the show notes.

Jonny Nastor: And I had to get it out of me, and I knew that. I knew I had to get through it. These are just things you have to do. That was like, “Wow, this is a pro up there,” and he’s just like, “Trust me, man, you’ve got to get this bad audio out of you because, from that, comes a little bit better audio. And then a little bit better audio.”

I love that Pat’s been doing this now for six years. Jordan Harbinger is on his fourth year, 450 episodes. I don’t feel like I’m that good at it yet, but I’m at 100 episodes. I’ve got a long ways to grow, and build, and get better at it. That’s really, really inspiring to me.

You don’t have to be good even at 100 episodes yet. I’m way better than a lot of people who’ve done three episodes or no episodes, because I’ve done 100. But wait until I get to 200, and 300, and 400. As long as I’m pushing forward, trying to get better at my craft, and trying to get better conversations. Understanding my audience better is just going to help the whole process.

Jerod Morris: That’s an idea that’s really resonated with people. I’ve talked to the few people, including Jan, one of our listens and one of the people in The Showrunner Podcasting Course, who’s getting ready to launch, and she even said that. She’s like, “I’ve got to start getting some of that bad audio out. Start recording, getting it out because it’s true. Just so much great insight from the keynotes.

Lou Mongello, I thought his enthusiasm and his passion to be up there, that was a real theme. Obviously, people who’ve listened to the show know it’s a big theme for me and for us that we talk about a lot. I sometimes feel that it’s simplistic, yet when you talk with the people here who are really successful about it, that’s the first thing they say. The first thing they talk about, even more prominently than we do, is if you’re not passionate for the topics, don’t even start. Don’t even try.

I was actually surprised that they focused on it that much, but I loved seeing it. We know that intuitively, and I think people need to understand that. Like, like you said, don’t pick a topic just because you think it will make money. Pick a topic that you love. A lot of the rest of it’s going to come from that.

I thought, also, John Lee Dumas‘ keynote this morning, I really enjoyed his. For me personally, he really made me think when he got to the courage part. What is your courage story? What moments really mattered and changed your perspective? Just his entire message was really good, too.

It’s just been a wonderful event. Really enjoyed it. So glad that I came, that we came, that so many folks from The Showrunner Podcasting Course came. We got to see them, have meals with them, and hang out with them. That was great. Wonderful and, hopefully, this episode will help transfer that enthusiasm to some folks who weren’t able to go. Any final summation thoughts about what’s been a really great weekend here in Fort Worth?

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, it’s just been amazing to be surrounded by people. How many people in your life are excited by podcasting? You know what I mean? Except for other podcasters. If you get the chance, of course, and you’re absolutely blessed to get to meet your audience at some point, then that, too. But typically, we have spouses and stuff who are just like, “Yeah, I get it. Yeah, you’re really into podcasting.”

I don’t know if you’ve seen the Family Guy where they walk in and they make fun of him. He says he’s going to make this big thing, and they’re like, you promised you would never talk about your podcast again, Peter. Then you see him in his basement just talking about hats for a long time. It’s that. Right now, we’re 1,100 podcasters here, all just loving it and talking about it. You get that transfer of energy.

There’s hundreds of them here that don’t even have shows yet but want to. That’s amazing. Plus, there’s a ton of free T-shirts. I’ve really got a lot of free T-shirts, which is really cool. And there’s a podcast Olympics that I got to participate in with another team last night at the after party. But next year, Showrunner’s going to be in it, so Showrunner people who are in the course and then make it to Podcast Movement in Chicago next summer, we’re going to win the podcast Olympics.

Jerod Morris: We’re throwing that gauntlet down right now? We’re winning the podcast Olympics?

Jonny Nastor: I believe I just did, yes.

Jerod Morris: I believe you did.

Jonny Nastor: I was on the winning team last night.

Jerod Morris: All right, well, there we go. You heard it here first. Okay, I’m down for that.

Should we do a listener question? Do we have a listener question? Are there any listeners around here that we could ask for a question? Let’s see here. There’s Tosha over there. Let’s see if we can get her over here.

Live Listener Question: What has been the most rewarding part about being at Podcast Movement 2015 with the Showrunners?

Jerod Morris: Let’s walk and talk and chat with people. How are you doing? This is a microphone. It is on, and we’re actually recording an episode of The Showrunner live right now. Yeah, we’re at the listener question portion. Do you want to ask us a question live, and we can answer?

Tosha Alani: What has been the most rewarding part about being at Podcast Movement 2015 with the Showrunners?

Jerod Morris: Well, we actually just touched on this a little bit, the privilege — which a lot of podcasters don’t get, or it takes a while to get — of actually meeting your audience. For us, not just meeting the listening audience but people actually in the course. Getting to talk with you about your plans for your show, why it’s so special and important to you, and the big picture that you have. Talking with Jan about the same thing, and Jeff, and everybody here.

Everybody has their own individual story and their own part of it that makes them passionate and enthusiastic. That, to me, is what makes me excited about doing the show, doing the course. That’s exactly what I love about podcasting. Being able to see it in person with the people who are listening and who are in the course, I love because it lets me know that we’re doing a good job of attracting the right people who feel the same way about it that we do and repelling people who don’t share those same ideas.

That’s why I love meeting you guys in person because it’s like, “Yes! These are my people. I’m their people. We found each other.” That’s what this whole thing is about. That’s what it is for me. What about for you, Mr. Nastor?

Jonny Nastor: Mine goes a little bit more intimate. I’m really just into the hugs. I’ve got a think four or five hugs now from Tosha. How else can I do that? That’s hard to transfer on audio, but we were just walking down the hall to each other, and it was a hug. We Showrunnered it out, and that was, to me, how much closer can you get for your audience? That’s awesome. And not even my audience, my friend. I shouldn’t even call you my audience. You’re on the show with us right now.

Jerod Morris: Jon Nastor, defender of humanity and constant humanity one-upper.

Okay, but let us ask you. What’s been the best part about this experience for you?

Tosha Alani: I think it’s been really the connections that are being made with people. In addition to that, it’s also the energy, the openness, and the eagerness that everyone has to support, share, and do something for someone else has been phenomenal — especially when we had the Showrunner meetup group that we did the other night. The energy just radiated. You could feel people’s excitement for what they’re doing, and you’re getting excited about it. So it’s really been a phenomenal time, and a lot of magic’s been happening.

Jerod Morris: Can I get a hug, too, or are they only for Jonny? All right. Thank you.
No, it’s wonderful. It’s been such a great event. I love this. Are you ready for Sarah Koenig?

Tosha Alani: I am ready. I cannot wait. I’ve never heard her speak, I’m sorry to say, and I’ve never listened to Serial. There’s just so much amazing stuff out there. I know I’m in for a great ride because I’ve heard amazing things about her.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, yeah. It should be really, really cool. Very cool. Well, cool. Thank you for helping us do a listener question live. We just decided to record this episode impromptu.

Tosha Alani: Awesome. Well thank you for letting me be part of it.

Jerod Morris: Of course.

Tosha Alani: Have fun.

Jerod Morris: Yes. Well, we need to do a podcast recommendation now. I wonder where we could find a podcast to recommend here at Podcast Movement.

Live Podcast Recommendation

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, let’s randomly go up to somebody and ask them to recommend their show.

Jerod Morris: Should we do that? Okay. Who should we find? Who should we ask to recommend their show?

Jonny Nastor: That guy in the green shirt has an excellent show.

Jerod Morris: He does?

Jonny Nastor: Yep.

Jerod Morris: He’s talking with somebody right now. Let’s ask him.

We’re The Showrunner podcast. We’re doing an episode right now. We always have a podcast recommendation from either of us, but we’re not here. I would love if you would recommend your show to the world.

Bill Nowicki: Oh, you want me to recommend my show?

Jonny Nastor: I do.

Bill Nowicki: Really? Well, my show’s called Submarine Sea Stories. I interview submariners. I was on submarines back in the ’80s, and I just cut it up with guys. We talk about all kinds of different things. Sometimes it’s about transitioning from high school to the military and then back out. It’s been a lot of fun, and it’s been a really eye-opening experience for me because I just thought it was a bunch of guys talking about drinking. There’s a lot more going on.

Jerod Morris: That’s great. That’s kind of what we talked about. Niches almost can’t be too small. You will connect with an audience. And that’s incredible.

Bill Nowicki: I’ve got 66,000 downloads.

Jerod Morris: Wow! For a show about submarines. That’s crazy. Okay, so can you state your name and where people can listen to the show?

Bill Nowicki: Bill Nowicki, I’m on iTunes. Submarine Sea Stories. You can find me there and listen.

Jerod Morris: Wow, that’s awesome.

Bill Nowicki: Thanks.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jonny Nastor: We recommend it.

Jerod Morris: Well, thanks for doing the first ever live podcast recommendation for The Showrunner. Appreciate it.

Okay, so main topic, listener question, podcast recommendation … I think it’s time to close this out and do a call to action.

Well, go to Showrunner.FM, get on the email list. We can do it as a short.

Jonny Nastor: During launch?

Jerod Morris: Maybe we’ll do it during launch.

Jonny Nastor: Yeah, maybe this is launch time.

Jerod Morris: I like that. Okay, go to ShowrunnerCourse.com. The course is open from August 3rd through August 14th. Go check it out. Everything will be listed there that the course includes.

One of the big things that we learned when we did this with the Showrunner meetup — we had dinner with a bunch of the folks that are in the course — is they told us how much they love the community.

In addition to the lessons, in addition to the other member benefits that you get, which you’ll find if you go to ShowrunnerCourse.com, the comradery, the support, the ability to ask questions of people who are walking down the same roads, and maybe they can share their experience or simply just empathize with what you’re going through and be there to offer an encouraging word. People told us all weekend about how much that meant to them. Anything else you want to say about the course before we close this up?

Jonny Nastor: No, this is it. It’s live now. It’s been live for a few times, but this is actually the last time for possibly the year. We’d love to have you in it. Try it out, and come to Podcast Movement with us next summer and win the Olympics, the podcast Olympics. I won it this year. I’ve got the T shirt in my hand right now that I won — and the glory, of course, that goes with it.

I’d just love to have you as part of the community. That really is part of the whole thing that really, really helps each other’s shows grow and become better Showrunners. I would love to have you in there working us. Jerod and I are both in there all the time. It would be great to see you in there.

Jerod Morris: Cool. Well, thanks for listening to this impromptu episode of The Showrunner recorded live from the exhibit hall at Podcast Movement 2015, which was an incredible event. Next year’s event will be held in Chicago they announced, so go to PodcastMovement.com. We highly recommend this event, and thank you for listening. We will talk to you on the next episode of Showrunner.