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7-Figure Small with Brian Clark
Confessions of a Pink-Haired Marketer
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing
Get More Clients With Smarter Email Marketing
Hack the Entrepreneur
Members Only
Rainmaker.FM Elsewhere
Site Success: Tips for Building Better WordPress Websites
StudioPress FM
Technology Translated
The Digital Entrepreneur
The Missing Link
The Showrunner
The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience
Youpreneur with Chris Ducker
Zero to Book
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing
hosted by Darrell Vesterfelt and Tim Stoddart

The One Quality All Popular Podcasts Share

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Previous Episode:Proof That Grit Is the Only Way to Reach Your Potential More Episodes Next Episode:The Introvert’s Guide to Launching a Successful Podcast

All Episodes:

March 30, 2020

The Advantage of Email Marketing, Featuring Nathan Barry of ConvertKit

March 15, 2020

How to Write Content That Resonates

March 9, 2020

How to Conquer Your Fear of Selling, with Leah Neaderthal

March 2, 2020

How to Build Remarkable Products to Grow Your Business, with Ramit Sethi

February 17, 2020

What You Should Talk about on Your Podcast, with Tara McMullin

February 9, 2020

How to Win at Search in 2020

February 3, 2020

How to Turn Pro as a Freelance Writer

January 27, 2020

Marketing Segmentation and Personalization with Brennan Dunn of RightMessage

January 20, 2020

Podcasting Still Matters, with Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income

January 13, 2020

The New Look Copyblogger in 2020

January 8, 2020

New Year, New Copyblogger

October 23, 2019

The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur with John Jantsch

October 2, 2019

Consistency Will Take You Further

September 25, 2019

The Past, Present, and Future of Online Learning

September 16, 2019

How to Get More of the Right Things Done

September 9, 2019

Why the Future Is Still Email

September 3, 2019

What’s Next for
Copyblogger Media?

August 26, 2019

How Smart, Nimble Companies Are Using Webinars Today

August 19, 2019

The Clarity Method: A Conversation with Tim Brownson

August 12, 2019

Digital Business Trends and the Latest on the Rainmaker Platform

August 5, 2019

4 ‘Naive’ Business Principles for Enduring Success

July 8, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion

July 1, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written

June 24, 2019

How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research

June 17, 2019

3 Almost Magical Headline Ingredients for More Traffic, Engagement, and Shares

June 10, 2019

Lessons Any Business Can Learn from an Impressive Influencer Marketing Fail

June 3, 2019

13 Ways of Looking at a Headline

May 27, 2019

The 7 ‘Bad’ Habits of Incredibly Successful People

May 20, 2019

Writers: How to Move from Making a Living to Driving Revenue

May 13, 2019

Choose the Right Frame to Boost the Power of Your Content

May 6, 2019

How Copywriting Teacher Belinda Weaver Reenergized Her Email List for Massive Engagement

April 29, 2019

3 Reasons Why Really Good Writers Sometimes Can’t Find Great Clients

April 22, 2019

3 Slightly Embarrassing Emotions that Drive Effective Copywriting

April 15, 2019

Get 10 Content Marketing Boosters in 20 Minutes

April 8, 2019

Becoming the ‘Chief Empathy Officer’ of Your Copy and Content

April 1, 2019

One of the Most Important Marketing Decisions You’ll Ever Make

March 18, 2019

What Nobody Wants to Hear about Content Marketing

March 11, 2019

Getting Your Big, Scary Projects Finished: A Conversation about Growing Gills

March 4, 2019

When Is It Time to Bring in a Professional Copywriter?

February 25, 2019

Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase

February 18, 2019

Understanding the Lifecycles of Your Website, with Pamela Wilson

February 11, 2019

5 Ways to Manage a Stress-Induced Creative Slump

February 4, 2019

3 Ways Strategic Content Can Drive Measurable Business Outcomes

January 28, 2019

The Social Media Platform Every Content Creator Should Be Using in 2019 (Nope, It’s Not Facebook)

January 21, 2019

Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content

January 14, 2019

A Conversation with Paul Jarvis about Staying a ‘Company of One’

October 29, 2018

The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion

October 22, 2018

5 Essential Copywriting Techniques from Copyblogger

October 15, 2018

5 Ways to Recover Your Professional and Creative Confidence

October 8, 2018

5 Stinky Sardine Secrets to Make Your Content More Fascinating

September 24, 2018

The Mindset ‘Hack’ that Frees Your Creativity and Makes You Happier

September 18, 2018

How to Kill Your Sales and Mess up Your Business: Lessons from a Used Car Salesman

September 4, 2018

The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living

August 27, 2018

Are You Making These Social Media Marketing Mistakes?

August 20, 2018

Fix These 7 About Page Mistakes for More Traffic and (Possibly) Better SEO

August 13, 2018

7 Ways to Boost Your Creativity

August 6, 2018

A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site

July 30, 2018

The 3 Keys to Publishing Strong Content … Even If You Aren’t a ‘Great’ Writer (Yet)

July 23, 2018

Fix These 3 Points of Failure to Get Better Results for Your Content

July 16, 2018

Big Changes at ConvertKit: A Discussion with Founder Nathan Barry

July 9, 2018

3 Skills to Master to Become a Marketing Badass this Year

June 18, 2018

The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy

June 11, 2018

5 Rules of Thumb to Relieve SEO-Induced Stress

June 4, 2018

How to Use the GDPR to Make Your Business Stronger than Ever

May 14, 2018

‘Good Karma’ Selling that Works: A Conversation with Tim Paige

April 30, 2018

How to Get More Comfortable (and Effective) at Selling

April 23, 2018

Privacy and Permission in the Wake of Cambridge Analytica

April 16, 2018

Seth Godin and How to Create Change

April 9, 2018

Email? Chatbots? Social? How Are We Supposed to Reach People?

March 26, 2018

The Double-Edged Sword that Can Make (or Break) Your Content

March 19, 2018

Make More Progress by Getting (Gently) Out of Your Comfort Zone

March 12, 2018

Are You Doing Content Marketing Wrong?

March 5, 2018

Storytelling for Modern Content Marketing (Part 2 of 2)

February 26, 2018

Storytelling for Modern Content Marketing (Part 1 of 2)

February 19, 2018

10 Quality Factors Search Engines Need to See on Your Site

February 12, 2018

A Simple Content Strategy to Make Your Site Massively More Useful

February 5, 2018

How to Avoid a Heartbreaking Business Failure

January 29, 2018

Hey Writers: Let’s Get You Paid What You’re Worth

January 15, 2018

5 Keys to Making Your Content More Shareable

December 18, 2017

3 Observations on Trends (but not Predictions) for 2018

December 11, 2017

3 Tips Now to Build a Strong Foundation in 2018

December 4, 2017

The 3 Success Factors that Help Writers Earn a Great Living

November 27, 2017

How to Recognize a Great Content Idea

November 20, 2017

How to Cultivate a More Meaningful Gratitude Practice

November 13, 2017

Advice for Poets, Advice for Killers

October 30, 2017

Face Your Business Fears on Halloween Week

October 23, 2017

How to Make Smarter Decisions about Your Website

October 2, 2017

A Series of Unfortunate Content Events

September 18, 2017

The Evolution of a Successful Copywriter

August 28, 2017

7 Ways to Improve Your Marketing by Harnessing the Power of Evil

August 14, 2017

Smart Questions from our Brilliant Audience

August 7, 2017

Does the Web Have Enough Patience for Your In-Depth Content?

July 31, 2017

How to Write (Much Better) Blog Comments

July 17, 2017

Which Works Better: Positive or Negative Content?

July 10, 2017

How to Attract the Exact Customers You Want

July 3, 2017

How to Create Stability and Success as an Artist

June 19, 2017

Two Powerful Resources for Life-Changing Growth

June 12, 2017

How to Turn All that Marketing Advice into Action

June 5, 2017

How to Develop a Compelling Marketing Idea in 4 Steps

May 30, 2017

Getting Over the Fear of Selling

May 22, 2017

Talking Community and Digital Business with Tara Gentile

May 15, 2017

Plagiarism, Self-Deception, Bad Sandwiches, and Other Interesting Disasters

May 1, 2017

Professional Writers: Find Out How to Get Certified by Copyblogger

April 17, 2017

The Painful Core Lesson Taught by 3 Astonishing Big-Brand Fails

April 3, 2017

5 Mindset Habits that Actually Work

March 27, 2017

On Grammar, Usage, and Not Being a Great Big Jerk

March 20, 2017

Creative Strategies for Content Writers

March 13, 2017

A New Ultra-Easy Resource for Creating Excellent WordPress Sites

February 20, 2017

Thriving Freelancers and Clients from Hell

February 13, 2017

Politics, Content Marketing, and the 2017 Super Bowl Ads

February 6, 2017

Copyblogger Book Club: Winning the Story Wars

January 23, 2017

3 Content Marketing Strategy Fails (and How to Fix Them)

January 9, 2017

The 2017 Content Excellence Challenge: Your January Assignments

December 19, 2016

Bad Writing Advice: The ‘Post Truth’ Episode

December 12, 2016

Get Ready Now for a Creative and Productive 2017

December 5, 2016

The 4 Pillars Every Online Business Is Built On

November 28, 2016

Orbit Media’s Latest Survey of 1000 Bloggers

November 14, 2016

Have You Already Missed the Podcasting Gold Rush?

November 7, 2016

Getting More Traffic, Links, and Shares to Your Content

October 31, 2016

5 Quick Wins for Content Marketers

October 24, 2016

Announcing: An Intriguing New Tool for Collaborative Content

October 17, 2016

A New Book to Make Content Marketing Easier

October 10, 2016

Behind the Scenes at Copyblogger: Our New Email Approach

October 3, 2016

The ‘Obligatory’ Structure of Effective Content

September 26, 2016

7 Powerful Content Strategies Borrowed from Advertising Masters

September 15, 2016

How to Handle Demographic and Psychographic Segmentation (without Looking Like an Idiot)

September 8, 2016

Ethics, Professionalism, and Good Manners for Content Marketers

September 1, 2016

3 Questions that Can Haunt Creative Professionals

August 25, 2016

How to Give and Get Exceptional Testimonials, Part Two

August 18, 2016

How to Give and Get Exceptional Testimonials, Part One

August 11, 2016

Are You Leaving Money on the Table with Weak Headlines?

August 4, 2016

Content Marketing for Nonprofits

July 28, 2016

The One-Two Punch that Creates the Most Successful Copywriters

July 21, 2016

Pokémon Go: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

July 14, 2016

5 Suggestions When You’re Writing About Controversy

July 7, 2016

Announcing: A Breakthrough Educational Collaboration between Copyblogger and U.C. Davis

June 30, 2016

How to Break Past the #1 Conversion Killer

June 23, 2016

The New Age of Marketing Automation: Powerful, Simple, Cost-Effective

June 16, 2016

How to Make a (Really Good) Living as a Freelance Writer

June 9, 2016

Self-Publishing, Side Hustles, and Doing It All: A Conversation with Linda Formichelli

June 2, 2016

A Process for Content Marketing Success

May 26, 2016

Content Marketing Best Practices: Getting Email Opt-Ins

May 19, 2016

Behind the Scenes: Adventures in Advertising

May 12, 2016

Trump, Apple, and Facebook Advertising: Content Marketing News for May, 2016

May 5, 2016

Sally Hogshead and the Art of Fascination

April 28, 2016

Behind the Scenes at the Rainmaker Digital Company Meeting!

April 14, 2016

Social Media News, Social Media Constants

April 7, 2016

Strategies for B2B Podcasting, with Clark Buckner

March 31, 2016

Content Marketing Success Stories: Fitness Powerhouse Examine.com

March 24, 2016

Behind the Scenes: An Inside Look at the Rainmaker FM Redesign

March 17, 2016

Our Latest Advice and Resources for Digital Business Owners

March 10, 2016

Should Content Publishers Adopt Google’s New AMP?

March 3, 2016

7 Ways to Get Smarter with Social Media Listening

February 25, 2016

Content Marketing Shout-Out: Orbit Media and Andy Crestodina

February 18, 2016

The Tactic You Should Steal from Copyblogger

February 11, 2016

Content Marketing News for February, 2016

February 4, 2016

Email Marketing: The Misunderstood Powerhouse

January 28, 2016

The Secret Weapon Behind Great Websites: The Role of the Content Editor

January 21, 2016

Behind the Scenes: The Relaunch and Re-Imagining of Copyblogger.com

January 14, 2016

Trends and Predictions for Digital Commerce: A Conversation with Brian Clark

January 7, 2016

2016 Content Marketing Resolutions

December 28, 2015

The End of The Lede, The Beginning of Copyblogger FM

November 10, 2015

Constraints Can Be Blessings (Plus 2 Other Essential Lessons Jerod Re-Learned This Week)

November 3, 2015

Long or Short? The Content Length Question Answered, Once and For All

October 27, 2015

The Simple Publishing Hack That Gives Old Content New Life (Plus 3 More Tips)

October 20, 2015

The Surprising Truth about Earning a Profit from Your Content

October 13, 2015

How to Move Your Audience From Infatuation to Love

October 6, 2015

3 Things Your Audience Wants You to Know about Useful Content

September 29, 2015

Revisiting Authenticity: What It Is, What It’s Not, and Why It Matters

September 22, 2015

Publishing Lessons from Dave Pell, the Most Fascinating Email Newsletter Writer in the Business

September 15, 2015

Why Content Creators Should Kiss Their Programmers

September 8, 2015

Finally — A Podcast about the Superiority of Written Content

September 1, 2015

Hot Seat: Grilling Jerod on Using Audio Content to Seed a Content Arsenal

August 25, 2015

How to Optimize Your Headlines for Content Discovery with Vinegar (Before You Die of Cholera)

August 18, 2015

5 Stories That Explain Jerod Morris (Plus One Massive Marketing Lesson)

August 11, 2015

Lede Potpourri: A Big Idea, Talking About Demian Behind His Back, and Lessons from #PM15

August 4, 2015

How to Attend an Industry Conference Like a Boss

July 28, 2015

Getting the Most Out of a Conference When You’re There to Promote, Part 1

July 21, 2015

How Much Does the Modern Content Marketer Need to Know About SEO?

July 14, 2015

Are Podcasters Digitally Sharecropping Without Realizing It?

July 7, 2015

Celebrating Our 101st Episode (with a Special Guest Interviewer)

June 30, 2015

Why The Phrase ‘Leaders Are Readers’ Should Die

June 23, 2015

Why You Should Think Outside the Box About Online Courses

June 16, 2015

The Proper (and Safe) Way to Republish Old Articles

June 9, 2015

How to Grow an Audience on LinkedIn by Repurposing Content

June 2, 2015

Key Takeaways from Three-and-a-Half Hours with Henry Rollins

May 27, 2015

Rapid-Fire Takeaways from Authority Rainmaker

May 19, 2015

The Proper Way to Grow an Audience on Medium

May 12, 2015

The Introvert’s Guide to Launching a Successful Podcast

May 5, 2015

The One Quality All Popular Podcasts Share

April 28, 2015

Proof That Grit Is the Only Way to Reach Your Potential

April 21, 2015

Do We Celebrate Failure Too Much?

April 14, 2015

Choose Yourself Part 2: James Altucher Fights Back

April 7, 2015

Should We Fear Content Shock? (Or Could It Actually Be a Good Thing?)

March 31, 2015

Should You Really ‘Walk in the Direction of Your Fear’?

March 24, 2015

Is ‘Choose Yourself’ Good Advice … or New-Age Phooey?

March 17, 2015

Is Authority Earned or Bestowed?

March 3, 2015

Dan Pink on How to Succeed in the New Era of Selling

February 24, 2015

Here’s How to Answer the Most Important Question in Life (and Make a Living from It)

February 17, 2015

Sally Hogshead on How You Can Unlock Your Natural Ability to Fascinate

February 10, 2015

How to Learn from Your Successes

January 27, 2015

How to Learn From Your Mistakes

January 13, 2015

Lessons Learned from Conducting Two Monster Audience Surveys

December 16, 2014

Adaptive Content: A Trend to Pay Attention to in 2015

December 2, 2014

The Most Important Lessons You Should Have Learned in 2014

November 18, 2014

How We Built Our Careers Online (And What You Can Learn From It)

November 4, 2014

Interview with Brian Clark: How Customer Experience Maps Help You Develop a Smarter Content Strategy

October 21, 2014

How Empathy Maps Help You Speak Directly to the Hearts of Your Audience

October 7, 2014

How to Ignite a Feeling in Your Audience

September 23, 2014

Are You Overlooking This Cornerstone of a Smart Content Strategy?

June 26, 2014

How to Curate Knowledge, Turn it Into Wisdom, and Build Your Audience

June 19, 2014

How Successful Writers Curate Ideas

June 13, 2014

The 5 W’s of Link Curation

June 6, 2014

Why You Should Curate Content (And How to Do It Right)

May 30, 2014

How Freaks and Misfits Can Succeed in Business: A Conversation with Chris Brogan

May 23, 2014

The 2 Reasons People Don’t Click on Your Buttons … And How to Overcome Them

May 16, 2014

Chase Customers, Not Clicks

May 9, 2014

How to Be Authentic

May 2, 2014

How to Close With Style

April 25, 2014

The Best of Seth Godin on Copyblogger

April 17, 2014

How to Choose Arresting Images for Your Blog Posts (And Why You Should)

April 11, 2014

Removing Blog Comments: The View So Far

April 4, 2014

How to Use Internal Cliffhangers

March 28, 2014

Hangout Hot Seat with Brian Clark

March 21, 2014

How to Tell a Seductive Story

March 14, 2014

How to Create Exquisite Subheads

March 7, 2014

How to Write Killer Bullet Points

February 28, 2014

How to Write Damn Good Sentences

February 21, 2014

How to Use Persuasive Words

February 14, 2014

Michael Stelzner on Capturing Emails and Committing to Quality

February 7, 2014

How to Nail Your Opening

January 24, 2014

How to Write a Magnetic Headline (in Under 15 Minutes)

May 18, 2012

Seth Godin on When You Should Start Marketing Your Product, Service, or Idea

May 11, 2012

How to Attract an Audience by Integrating Content, Social, and Search

March 30, 2012

Why You Should Build an Audience Before You Build a Business

March 16, 2012

How Chris Brogan Built His Content Platform

March 9, 2012

Jay Baer on How to Turn Interested Prospects into Lifelong Customers

March 2, 2012

A 30-Minute Copywriting Course from a Master of the Craft

February 24, 2012

The Path to a Legendary Copywriting Career

February 17, 2012

5 Tips for Affiliate Marketing Beginners

February 10, 2012

Why Not Sell Physical Stuff With Digital Media?

February 3, 2012

Whether You Call it Blogging or Not, Online Content Still Rules

January 27, 2012

Answers to the 3 Biggest Email Marketing Questions We Get

January 20, 2012

How to Newsjack Your Way to Free Media Exposure with David Meerman Scott

January 13, 2012

Steven Pressfield and the War of Work

November 18, 2011

The Strategy Behind the Copyblogger Redesign

November 11, 2011

7 Ways to Create an Email Marketing "Snowball Effect"

November 4, 2011

Warning: If You're Not a Privacy Nut, You're Losing Sales

October 28, 2011

The 3 Kinds of Writing That Builds a Business

October 21, 2011

The Art of Seductive Writing: A Conversation with Robert Greene

October 7, 2011

Why Content Marketing Doesn't Suck

September 30, 2011

Are You Weird Enough to Succeed at Content Marketing?

September 23, 2011

What Works With SEO Right Now and Why No One Does What You Want

September 16, 2011

Are You Flushing Your Marketing Down the Social Media Toilet?

September 11, 2011

Seth Godin on Blogging, Business Books, and Creating Content that Matters

September 2, 2011

The Return of Copyblogger Radio …

June 10, 2011

Answered: Your Most Burning Content Marketing Questions

June 3, 2011

How to Get All the Clients and Customers You Can Handle

May 20, 2011

Is Content Marketing Worth the Work?

May 13, 2011

How to Write Nearly Undeletable Emails

May 6, 2011

Is the Online Gold Rush Over?

April 22, 2011

The Art of Enchanting Online Marketing with Guy Kawasaki

April 15, 2011

The Market for Something to Believe in is Infinite: An Interview with Hugh MacLeod

April 8, 2011

How to Constantly Create Compelling Content

March 25, 2011

The Content Marketing Question You Need to Answer … Now

March 18, 2011

Good SEO is Simple. Really.

March 4, 2011

Did Social Media Kill the Marketing Star?

February 25, 2011

How to Write (and Execute) a Simple but Powerful Business Plan

February 17, 2011

How to Kick Groupon to the Curb and Become a Local Hero

February 3, 2011

Convert … Or Die

January 27, 2011

Attention: Is Your Headline Getting Any?

January 20, 2011

How to Craft Landing Pages that Work

January 13, 2011

Why Every Smart Business is in the Media Business

January 5, 2011

2011 Content Marketing Predictions

December 15, 2010

Tim Ferriss on How to Reinvent Yourself with Blog Marketing

December 8, 2010

The 6 Elements of an Influential Web Experience

December 1, 2010

Your Staggeringly Unfair Marketing Advantage

November 17, 2010

How to Get Some Action

November 10, 2010

The Foundation of All Marketing that Works

November 3, 2010

Introducing Copyblogger Radio

May 5, 2015

The One Quality All Popular Podcasts Share

Podcasting isn’t going anywhere. In fact, the data suggests that podcasting is only growing. But should you join the bandwagon and start one?

Here’s the thing: Podcasting is the only truly mobile medium. With a podcast you can communicate with your audience while they are driving, exercising, or cleaning the house.

It’s hands free. Unlike text or video.

Besides, a podcast allows a level of intimacy unlike any other medium. You are in people’s heads.

If you look around, it looks like everyone and their brother is launching a podcast. Should you? Or is podcasting just a bubble that will eventually burst?

Great questions. So, if you’ve ever even remotely entertained starting a podcast — and still have questions — this podcast is for you.

In this half hour interview, Demian Farnworth grills Jerod Morris, a man who’s spent four years in the trenches of podcasting, with his most basic questions and concerns about starting a podcast …

Particularly digging for that elusive factor behind all popular podcasts. And Jerod delivers.

In this tight, loaded episode you’ll also discover:

  • The 3 questions that will help you decide if podcasting is right for you
  • Lessons learned from promising, popular shows that ultimately failed
  • Common misunderstandings about engaging with your podcast audience (that can stall growth)
  • The surprisingly small amount of money you need to start a podcast
  • What sort of shows iTunes accepts (and why you shouldn’t sweat the approval process)
  • How to promote your show to build momentum in the critical early days
  • And so much more!

Listen to Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing below ...

The One Quality All Popular Podcasts ShareJerod Morris and Demian Farnworth
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The Show Notes

  • Why Podcasts Fail
  • FAQs for Podcast Makers at Apple
  • The Assembly Call
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The Transcript

The One Quality All Popular Podcasts Share

Voiceover: This is Rainmaker.FM, the digital marketing podcast network. It’s built on the Rainmaker Platform, which empowers you to build your own digital marketing and sales platform. Start your free 14-day trial at RainmakerPlatform.com

Demian Farnworth: Ready whenever you are.

Jerod Morris: Oh, I’m ready.

Demian Farnworth: All right. That’s what I thought. Am I asking you first? Is that what we agreed upon? Is that what we said?

Jerod Morris: I thought so, but now that I’m thinking about it, I realize that I worded that obtusely. I’m glad we’re recording though.

Demian Farnworth: I know, right? It’s like a battle of wits. “I’m not going to say something until he says something.”

Clearly, Jerod and I need to get our act together. Unfortunately for you, we do, and we do it quickly. In this half-hour interview with Jerod, a man who spent four years in the trenches of podcasting, I grill him with the questions that are on all of our minds: Who should podcast? What’s the strategy behind a podcast? How do you know people are listening, and how do you engage with that audience? What’s the cost, and what kind of equipment do you need? What’s the best software? How hard is it to get your show in iTunes? Can podcasting really build a business?

Podcasting is not going anywhere. It’s hugely popular, and it seems like every day there’s a new one showing up in iTunes. But does that mean you need to start a podcast? If you are at least remotely entertaining the idea of podcasting, then join Jerod and I as we tease apart this popular content marketing medium.

Okay Jerod, here we are. We’ve got this episode on podcasting. I was just thinking you should probably start a podcast about New Age stuff.

Jerod Morris: Like ‘choose yourself?’

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, exactly.

Jerod Morris: Really useful, widely accepted ideas that are inspiring great achievements across the world that you seem unwilling to embrace.

Demian Farnworth: Yeah, exactly — New Age stuff.

Jerod Morris: I’ll think about that.

Demian Farnworth: Okay. Jerod, you’ve got quite a history when it comes to podcasting. You’ve got a number of shows in your back pocket. I knew that you ran your Indiana Hoosiers podcast, The Assembly Call. I didn’t realize you were doing it for so long.

Jerod Morris: Mm-hmm.

Demian Farnworth: Now you’re running a show called The Showrunner, which is about podcasting, which I think is fabulous and one that I’ve been devouring just for the simple fact that I have not really done my homework on podcasting. It’s just like, “Give me the mic, and I will start doing this.” But listening to that, I’m like, “Wow, okay, I’m missing all this stuff.”

Naturally, you’re fit for doing that. I’m wondering, how did you get into podcasting? What came into mind for you about that? What brought that idea to your mind, to say, “I want to do a podcast?”

Jerod Morris: It was back when I was running Midwest Sports Fans, which was my first foray into blogging and building an audience — really, driving traffic more than building an audience. I wish I had built an audience. But it was just as someone who was always interested in sports and would play basketball games by myself out in my driveway and announce the games out loud as I was playing them.

I always fancied myself as a sportscaster. I didn’t study that. I obviously didn’t go into that for my profession. But when I saw podcasting — and the guy that I was working with at the time was an audiophile and had bought a whole bunch of equipment — I figured, “Why not just try?” It was really just a curiosity and something that seemed fun that got me into it at first. There was no big idea, no real big goal behind it. It just seemed like fun to try.

Demian Farnworth: Mm-hmm. I see a theme here. Because I know that you also love karaoke.

Jerod Morris: Uh-oh. What’s the theme?

Demian Farnworth: The fact that it’s DIY entertainment, right?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, but there’s a goal with karaoke. I want to be a singer, Demian, you know that.

Demian Farnworth: But you wanted to be a sports announcer, too.

Jerod Morris: That’s true. Neither one of them is happening.

Demian Farnworth: No, they are. They are, my friend.

Okay, let’s get to the basics. Who should podcast? Because we know that it’s this eruption. Many people would even suggest we’re in the podcast bubble, or at least reaching that point. But who should podcast?

Jerod Morris: That’s a good question, because I think it would be very easy to just say “everybody,” but I think that oversimplifies it. I think certainly everybody online who’s trying to build a business should think about it and should consider it. But there are really probably three questions someone should ask themselves, and if they can answer them all affirmatively, then they should give podcasting a try.

The 3 Questions That Will Help You Decide If Podcasting Is Right for You

Jerod Morris: Those three questions are, “Do you have a desire to connect with an audience about a topic that is important to you?” To create compelling content, you obviously have to know about it, and to really know about it, you have to be passionate about it. There’s got to be that topic there that you’re excited about as opposed to just having this end goal you want to achieve. I think it’s got to come from a more genuine place than that.

The second question would be then, “Will the content that you share educate, entertain or inspire people in your audience?” I think it really needs to at least one of those things. If it can do all three, that’s all the better. But I think you have to have a plan for getting that audio content out there that will educate, entertain, or inspire.

Then the third one is, “Can you commit to creating content consistently and reliably so that your audience has a chance to grow?” I think the biggest reason why podcasts don’t work is simply that their host stops showing up.

Lessons Learned from Promising, Popular Shows That Ultimately Failed

Jerod Morris: I think there’s a lot of really big podcast audiences that were just left there waiting and never developed simply because the host stopped showing up. There’s going to be a dip where maybe a really early surge starts to lag a little bit, or maybe your early enthusiasm starts to lag a little bit. I think if you can simply commit that, “Hey, I understand this is probably going to happen. When it happens, I’m going to push through it, keep going, because there’s a bigger purpose for me here to be podcasting.”

I think if you can answer those three questions in the affirmative — and they’re pretty simple questions — then there’s no reason not to give it a try. You may find that it doesn’t work. It might not fit your business goals. It might not fit your schedule. It might not fit your season of life. But I certainly think it’s worth trying to see because there are so many benefits that can come from it.

Demian Farnworth: All right, there’s a few things I want to tease out right there. My first question, though, is you mentioned the audience, building an audience. What I’ve found pretty interesting in my first foray into podcasting is, how do you engage with your audience? Because publishing a blog, you can get pretty good feedback through the comments, but on audio, with a podcast, I seem a little separated from the audience because it might be through a Tweet, or it might be comments on the blog. But I think people leave less comments on the blog for the podcast versus if it was a post I published and they were already there on the website and dropped a comment. How do you engage with a podcast audience?

Common Misunderstandings about Engaging with Your Podcast Audience (That Can Stall Growth)

Jerod Morris: That’s a great question. I think there is maybe a misunderstanding of the best ways to do that. I think the ways that I’ve learned have been through experience. Because you’re right. Just putting out the blog posts and asking for comments, you don’t seem to get as many of those comments as you would if it were just a blog post. I think it really comes down to understanding that your audience listens to your podcast, and then where do they go? Instead of assuming that they’re going to come to you and leave a post on your blog, you go to them and find ways to engage.

For instance, with The Assembly Call, the IU basketball podcast, the audience for that show was almost entirely built on the #IUBB hashtag on Twitter. That’s where people Tweet about IU basketball. I went there and participated in the conversation, and people started to find the podcast, and then you participate more.

Eventually, and I think this is the key, I started an email list. That email list has absolutely been the key to the growth of that site because it’s not just about, “Hey, I published a show. Let me send it out to the email list.” It’s about basically having this group of people that’s really passionate about this topic that I like, and now I can sit down and email them something when maybe that content isn’t the best fit for a podcast. I can reach them in another way.

I think we’re going to start doing this more, actually, with the shows on Rainmaker.FM.

Demian Farnworth: Okay.

Jerod Morris: Right now, each show doesn’t have its own email list but what we found with New Rainmaker, because obviously it’s got the big list, and then what we’re finding with Showrunner, is that it’s so valuable to be able to connect with people in that way. Now you have these multiple touchpoints. The podcast is one, but then it’s really about you making the effort and taking the next step to not only give your audience other places to connect with you but then really being proactive in those places about connecting with them.

Demian Farnworth: Okay. The other thing you said about whether one should podcast or not is about the business objectives. Outside of building an audience, what other reasons are there to start a podcast?

Jerod Morris: I think from the perspective of the content creator, your podcast has to be profitable. I mean that in something of a general sense. We think of the word ‘profitability,’ and obviously we think of money. For a lot of people, their podcast does need to bring in more revenue than it costs. It’s specifically talking about money, because otherwise, they can’t justify the time. I think if that’s the case, then you need to make sure that what you’re doing is building toward some type of sustainable revenue model. Whether you’re selling sponsorships, whether you’re building tour de course, whether you have products or services that you’re selling, following a model that will allow you to do that is important.

But I think there are other layers to profitability. I think one of them is simply intrinsic. People underestimate the importance of how good it makes you feel inside to talk about this topic, connect with an audience, and see people improve because of what you say. Whether it’s because you improve their commute simply because you’re entertaining them or you’re helping them make $100,000 because of a tip you gave, there is something in there that’s nourishing for the soul.

We talk about profitability as one of the four pillars of a successful podcast in the course, not just of how it’s profitable in the money sense, but also how it’s profitable in that internal, feeling sense is important, too, and will keep you coming back to the mic on those times when it gets a little tough.

The Surprisingly Small Amount of Money You Need to Start a Podcast

Demian Farnworth: How much should someone sink, money-wise, into starting a podcast?

Jerod Morris: I don’t think you need to sink very much, money-wise, in it in the first place anyway. Just to get started, you can get yourself a good mic for less than $100. You can get yourself a headset that will at least give you a shot at having decent audio for $20. I think if you’re going to be serious, you want to do a little bit more than that. But I don’t think you have to invest a lot of money. I think at first, you have to invest time, and obviously time is money, and it all goes together.

You’ve got to understand that you do have to have a goal in mind, so whether it’s a business goal or whether it’s a personal goal, you’ve got to understand what that is. Then, it’s how much is that worth to you? Make that mental calculation, and that will instruct how much time you can invest in doing it and more than time, how many resources you can invest in doing it.

Demian Farnworth: Outside of a mic, what else — equipment — do you need?

Jerod Morris: You need a mic, I think obviously you need a computer. You need that basic. There are free editing programs so you don’t even need to pay for those. Audacity for a Windows computer, Garage Band for a Mac, which is free.

Demian Farnworth: Okay.

Jerod Morris: Then it really just depends on your platform. I think if you’re just starting out and you really don’t know if this is the right thing, just getting a basic website on some inexpensive hosting will work. I think if you’re going to be serious about it and you’re going to build a business around your podcast, then something like the Rainmaker Platform is a very worthwhile investment because it will allow you to not only podcast but also build the platform around the podcast that you need.

To get started, to answer your specific question, you need a mic, you need a computer, and you need some headphones.

Demian Farnworth: And the software.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, and the software. But beyond that, there’s nothing that you need, and you can dip your toes in, see if it’s for you, and then progress forward from there.

What Sort of Shows iTunes Accepts (and Why You Shouldn’t Sweat the Approval Process)

Demian Farnworth: Okay. How hard is it to get your show in iTunes?

Jerod Morris: It’s not hard to get your show in iTunes.

Demian Farnworth: They accept everybody?

Jerod Morris: That’s a really good question. I don’t think they accept everybody. I’ve never had a show denied in iTunes.

Demian Farnworth: But there is an approval process.

Jerod Morris: There is an approval process. You do have go through a specific approval process, and sometimes it can take a little while.

Demian Farnworth: Three days?

Jerod Morris: Three days, five days, sometimes even longer than that.

Demian Farnworth: Okay.

Jerod Morris: I have to assume they probably reject some shows if for nothing else then just because their RSS feed is wrong. They haven’t run it through a feed validator to make sure it’s correct. But I don’t think that they check for content or anything. But I should say, for people who are listening to this who are going to have obviously reasonable shows about reasonable topics, you don’t have to fear not being included into iTunes. You just have to wait three to five days.

Demian Farnworth: They’re not looking at say, “No, we already have four shows on hacking entrepreneurs, so we’re not going to let Jon Nastor in.”

Jerod Morris: No, not that I’ve ever heard of.

Demian Farnworth: Okay. When and how often should someone publish a show? Or an episode, I’m sorry.

Jerod Morris: That’s a magic question. I’m actually really excited about when we turn the tables and I get to interview you about podcasting, because I want to hear about your experience putting out a daily show, or a show four times a week.

This is a question that does not have a perfect answer. What’s more important than how often you podcast is, do you show up when your audience expects you to? For the Indiana Basketball podcast, for example, it’s a post-game show, so we need to have a new show up the day after every single game. That’s when people look for us. That’s when they’re going to be there. That may be a Monday and a Sunday one week, and it may be a Tuesday and a Thursday another week, just based on the college basketball schedule.

Demian Farnworth: Right.

Jerod Morris: But it’s got to be there. For you, you’re doing Rough Draft four days a week. The Showrunner comes out once a week. Again, it’s going to start from your audience. The information that you are trying to convey, what format best fits the conveyance of that information to your audience? Whether that’s a longer interview show that’s a half-hour long or little five-minute bits. Obviously, the shorter the show, the more likely it’s going to be able to work in multiple doses per week.
I don’t think Rough Draft would work as well if your episodes were 45 minutes long because people don’t have that much time.

How often you broadcast is going to be a function of the length of your show, the format, and then simply when your audience expects you. You’ve got to be there when your audience expects you, but you can set the expectation from the beginning.

Demian Farnworth: And of course if you have the resources and the time to do it.

Jerod Morris: Right, exactly.

Demian Farnworth: Because you can sink yourself very fast if you commit to doing it daily and then realize, “Okay, this is not going to work.”

Jerod Morris: Are you speaking from personal experience?

Demian Farnworth: No, I’m not.

You introduced me to a show called Hardcore History by Dan Carlin. It took me a while to finally get around to going to the show and subscribing and downloading it. As I went through that whole process, I went to go listen to my first show. I think I was going for a run. “This will be fun to listen to on my 45-minute run.” The show was four hours long.

Jerod Morris: I was going to say, are you going to run a marathon?

Demian Farnworth: You’re right. I was like, “Holy smokes.” It was fabulously interesting. This is my question that I was thinking throughout that whole time: do you think that he gets it right the first time through?

Jerod Morris: No. I think you can actually hear subtle edits in there. It is a big, long stream-of-consciousness, but I think he’ll go back in and edit things. I think sometimes he’ll stop and maybe back up and do it. I don’t think it’s one long, four-hour take that isn’t edited. But I think he’s in that room probably for those six hours doing it, maybe backing up and doing some edits, and that kind of thing.

Demian Farnworth: Really, this goes to another point, which is that you’re not going to ever get it right on the first time so expect some editing. Expect some reworking.

Jerod Morris: Especially your very first time doing it. Getting behind the microphone for the first time was a terrifying experience for me, and I probably had to do 15 takes to get it right, and I ended up having to script it because I was so uncomfortable, and I am even now, if it’s a new topic or a new format that I’m not comfortable with.

For instance, when I was doing the Showrunner Podcasting Course, I was doing these intro videos for the modules, but recording them sitting in the same place that I normally do like it was a podcast. The first one took me forever to do. I was awkward. I was doing it by myself in my own apartment. I was nervous doing it. But once I got it, then the rest of them started to flow. I think it’s one of those things. You get back there. You get more comfortable. You get more comfortable, and it just starts to become easier. But yeah, understand that you can always edit. Unless you’re doing a live show, which I’ve also had experience doing that, you can edit it and make it sound better. It relieves some of that pressure that is natural to build up.

Demian Farnworth: Okay. You launched podcasts. You’re in your first week. Is it normal to go into the iTunes app and refresh top charts every 30 minutes to see where you’re at?

Jerod Morris: That’s absolutely what you should be doing. There’s a couple things there. Number one, the launch part, that time period at the beginning, maybe the first eight to 10 weeks, is so important for building momentum and for using iTunes, getting into New and Noteworthy, and some of those features that are there for newer shows. It’s really important to focus during that early period.

I think going in there, seeing where you are, that also just shows enthusiasm and excitement over the project. It can give you little wins, like if you see that you were 97th in a sub-category and then later on in the day you’re up to 80th, and now you have a couple reviews. That kind of stuff is nourishing for your podcasting soul. It keeps you excited and ready to go the next time.

How to Promote Your Show to Build Momentum in the Critical Early Days

Demian Farnworth: Do you think it’s self-centered, almost egotistical, to share that kind of stuff with your audience on Twitter? That’s the thing that I struggled with. I was like, “Wow, this is doing exceptionally well. Should I screen capture that and say, ‘Look at Rough Draft. Look at where it’s at?’”

Jerod Morris: I think if you beat your chest and say, “I’m great. Look at this,” then it will probably come off the wrong way. But I think if you look at that and you think, “How fortunate am I to have an audience that is pushing me up here?” Because ultimately, it takes two. You put the content out there, but your audience has to show up and listen and download and rate and review. It should be a moment of humility where you realize how much your audience is contributing to this.

I think if you present it that way, then your audience loves sharing in that with you, because now they feel like they’re a part of something bigger, and that’s what we all want online and offline. We want to be part of groups and tribes and something bigger than ourselves. It’s up to the person running the podcast to cultivate that feeling with the audience, especially early on when you’re trying to develop that connection. Let them know that they’re part of something bigger and growing, and encourage them to share.

If it comes from a place of teamwork and humility and genuine appreciation for the role the audience has, then I think it’s going to come across great, and it’s going to help you multiple your efforts.

Demian Farnworth: So less, “Look at what I’ve done,” and more “look what you’ve done?”

Jerod Morris: Yeah, “Look what we’ve done.”

Demian Farnworth: We’ve done.

Jerod Morris: “Look what we’ve done together.”

Demian Farnworth: Give some tips. How do you encourage your audience to download? When you’re getting a show off the ground, where is your audience, and how do you build that?

Jerod Morris: I think where your audience of course is going to depend on who your audience is. You’ve got to understand who you’re speaking to, understand where they are. Once you start to find people who really grasp onto your show and who you know that it impacts in a positive way, don’t be shy about requesting ratings and reviews on iTunes or requesting shares. Because if the content is really helping them and they’re really connecting with it, then surely they know other people who can benefit from it.

Again, I think it just comes from how you view it. If it’s a selfish thing, where it’s like, “Hey, share this out there so I move up in iTunes,” and “so I make more money,” and “so I” do all of this, no one’s going to want to help you out. Frankly, you’re going to have a hard time building an audience if that’s how you genuinely think.

But if you really are audience-focused, and the reason I say that is that you can always lie and just say, “Hey, if you think that this will benefit someone in your network, consider sharing it with them.” Of course you can lie and say that, even if you just want to get it all for selfish reasons. But you’ll eventually be uncovered.

You really want to have those genuine feelings, but then, make it so that the action that you’re requesting, that you’re suggesting, has a benefit for the audience member. They’re not sharing this just for you. They’re sharing it because they’ll be helping out a friend or because whatever the reason is relative to your content. Make it about the group, and make it about helping, and make it an act of humility, not this selfish thing where we’re just trying to grab a bigger piece of the pie.

Demian Farnworth: Right. Okay. An episode that anyone out there who’s interested in podcasting should listen to is the Showrunner, the episode “Five Mistakes That Podcasters Typically Make.” Is that it?

Jerod Morris: Yes.

Demian Farnworth: Okay.

Jerod Morris: That’s a recent episode.

Demian Farnworth: Listen to that. You are basically quizzing Jon Nastor, and he’s got all these great tips. One of the things that he talked about was ‘the dip,’ meaning that once your show launches, you will do exceptionally well, probably — if you play it right — you’ll do well in the charts. But then there comes a time where you might end up in the top 200 if you’re lucky. Why is that?

Jerod Morris: I think iTunes will give some preferential treatment to new shows that are showing progress. That’s part of what New and Noteworthy is all about, is giving some of those new shows a chance. You can really see a bump from that. Some shows are buoyed by that early, and then once you’re out of New and Noteworthy, sometimes that bump goes away. If you haven’t done a really good job of building an audience, again — if you’re just building traffic and building listeners, but there’s no way to capture those people — you can see a really big dip.

I think one way, number one, to avoid that dip is to really make sure that you’re building an audience, building people who aren’t just curious but who become audience members and show up every week or however often you’re putting a show out there.

Demian Farnworth: Are these people who are subscribing to your show?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, exactly — people who are subscribing to your show, or maybe they’re on your email list, or maybe they’re connecting with you in some other channel. But in some way, they’ve connected, so they don’t need the iTunes discovery machine to show you to them. They are self-selecting themselves as part of your audience.

Demian Farnworth: They’re automatically getting your shows.

Jerod Morris: That helps a lot, yeah.

Demian Farnworth: Do people ever come out of the dip?

Jerod Morris: Sure. The other thing with the dip, too, is that I think the dip can be an internal thing. It’s really fun and it’s really exciting at the beginning, but maybe you lose the enthusiasm for the content. Maybe you’re not quite getting out of it what you want, so you lose sight of giving the audience what they need. Those two things start to build on each other, and it’s this negative snowball.

Getting past that dip, again, is all about refocusing on why you’re doing it in the first place. Why are you here? What’s the purpose? What’s the bigger goal? If you can keep your eye on that prize — and especially if it’s a much more outward prize, not just an internal thing that you’re trying to achieve — that will help you get past that and keep that momentum going. Then you dip down, but you keep building those subscribers up, and then you slowly and steadily move up the charts, not in New and Noteworthy, but in the Hot section and in the other charts that are more long-term based.

Demian Farnworth: Another question I wanted to ask you is, do you think that headlines have anything to do with success of your individual shows?

How Enticing Headlines Draw Listeners and Set Their Expectations

Jerod Morris: Absolutely. Headlines have so much to do with everything, with every piece of content being consumed. Look, right now I’m subscribed to 40-some podcasts. I can’t listen to all of those podcasts. I would love to. Even your show — I love Rough Draft.

Demian Farnworth: Right.

Jerod Morris: I haven’t been able to keep up with all the episodes of your show.

Demian Farnworth: Wait a minute. What did you say?

Jerod Morris: Trust me, I’m trying. I’m working on it.

Demian Farnworth: This interview is over, dude. Go on.

Jerod Morris: The point I’m trying to make with headlines is that even all these shows that you subscribe to and you basically said, “I want to listen to,” the job’s not over. You’ve still got to entice the person to actually listen.

Just because a show is downloaded onto someone’s phone doesn’t mean they actually listen to it. Downloads is a nice vanity metric. The point of podcasting should be about connection, not vanity metrics. To connect, people have to listen.

I think a headline that really accentuates the benefit I’m going to get as the listener for investing my time in this podcast — clearly articulate that to me and let me decide if I want to invest my time. Headlines are very important. Just because it’s not a blog post doesn’t mean the headline isn’t as important. It’s just as important as a podcast as it is in a blog post, as it is in a book, as it is in everything else.

Demian Farnworth: Okay. Inside that iTunes metric engine, you mentioned downloads. They’re counting downloads as the popularity. Do they count plays too?

Jerod Morris: I don’t know if iTunes has any way of knowing if you play. Certainly if they do they’re not telling you. Podcast stats are a big, emerging field, and I know Tom Webster is one of the thought leaders in this field and is doing a lot of work to make podcast stats better because frankly they’re just not very good right now. You can certainly track any amount of plays on your own site, but most people don’t engage with your actual audio content on the player on your site. They’re using some kind of podcast player. You can certainly get downloads, so you know how often the file is tracked, but if they’re not doing it on your site, it’s very difficult to know how many people are actually pressing ‘play,’ how long they’re listening into it.

I think you get a gauge from it based on your interaction with your community. If they’re asking you questions and if people are really engaging with you about the content, you know if they’ve listened. That, to me, is more important than just the numbers. How does it feel? What are the communications like? What does your connection with your audience feel like? I think sometimes you can get a better feel for how well your show is doing from that than simply from looking at the numbers.

Demian Farnworth: Right. Is iTunes the only player? Do they have such a big market share that we podcasters don’t have to worry about other devices, other avenues of sharing the show?

Jerod Morris: ITunes is so big that it’s like Google is some now and certainly was even before, where you just optimized your site for Google and everything else falls in line.

Demian Farnworth: Right.

Jerod Morris: I think iTunes is certainly the biggest, so that’s the player to focus on. Frankly, a lot of other podcast players take their feeds from iTunes. I think iTunes is the one to focus on. Just to keep things simple, as long as you’re doing well in iTunes and if your show is showing up for the keywords that you want it to and that kind of thing, then I think you’ll pretty much be doing well across the board.

You want to make sure that your main podcast feed, where everybody would be getting your shows from, put that into a feed validator. Just make sure that it’s right and that it can be read, and as long as you’ve submitted to iTunes and you’re in there, then I think that’s really what to focus on.

Demian Farnworth: Ignore Stitcher?

Jerod Morris: No, I certainly wouldn’t ignore Stitcher. I think Stitcher is emerging, especially for people who don’t have iPhones. I’m glad you brought that up. Stitcher is a really good place to go submit your show to. Frankly, Stitcher gives you even better engagement stats. They tell you how long people are listening to your show. They give you a lot of different stats that iTunes doesn’t.

Demian Farnworth: Stitcher is the non-Apple, right? Is it for Android devices?

Jerod Morris: You can use it on either device. I think a lot of Android people use it simply because there isn’t iTunes.

It’s a different style. Stitcher is personalized radio, so you get playlists, and unless you buy their premium service, ads play in between your content. It’s a little weird in that sense, in terms of the expectation of the listener. But there’s a lot of people there. It’s a good product, and they provide you with some good stats. That would be the other place that I would recommend that people submit their shows to.

Demian Farnworth: All right, let me close with this question, the big one. I know the answer to this question because I listened to your podcast episode with Jon Nastor on the five mistakes that podcasters make.

Jerod Morris: Oh boy.

Demian Farnworth: I know that our listeners, some listeners probably don’t know, but if anybody is remotely interested in podcasting, go listen to that episode. Here’s the question: what’s the number-one reason people as podcasters fail?

The Biggest Reason Podcasters Fail (and How You Can Avoid It)

Jerod Morris: I think the number-one reason podcasters fail is that they just stop showing up, frankly. I think there’s a lot of reasons why shows fail, but to me, that’s the number-one reason. If you stop showing up and an audience that was there waiting and wanting to engage with your content no longer can, now they’ve got to go somewhere else. If you stop showing up, that means that you didn’t give yourself a chance to get past that dip to figure out a little bit of a better business model, to engage even more with your content, to find better ways to explain it, to connect more.

I think so often — it’s not just podcasting, it’s online — it’s more a war of attrition and attitude than it is aptitude, right? There are a lot of smart people out there, but it’s not always the smartest person that wins. A lot of times, it’s the person that just shows up more, and your audience trusts you not just because of what you say, but the fact that you’re always there to say it. This guy over here may be smarter, but they don’t know when he’s going to be there. He’s not reliable. People want something that’s reliable, that they can count on, and that they can connect with.

Demian Farnworth: Even if they don’t listen to it every day?

Jerod Morris: Right, exactly.

Demian Farnworth: I’ve forgiven you, by the way.

Jerod Morris: Okay. But it doesn’t mean that it’s sometimes not right to stop a podcast. That’s not what I’m saying. But in terms of why shows fail, I think it’s just because a host who otherwise could have really done something with it stopped showing up, whether they weren’t ready to make the commitment or just didn’t figure out that better way to connect with the audience for whatever reason.

Demian Farnworth: Okay. I said that was the final question but you brought up a point. What if you’re three months in and you realize, “This is not the direction I want to go?” Is it okay that a show evolves? At what point do you say, “This is the wrong format. This is the wrong way to do a show?” Is it okay just to do an abrupt 180? Do you evolve, or how do you handle a situation like that if you find out this is not working?

Jerod Morris: Listen to the audience, and listen to your gut feeling. We’ve actually already done that with The Showrunner. Whenever this airs, I think we’ll be on the sixth or seventh episode of The Showrunner, and we’ve evolved the format already just since the first episode. We’ve evolved how we’re using music in there based on audience feedback. Especially with an early show, you go out there with a gut feeling and a hunch but then allow yourself to be wrong and then don’t take it personally if your audience doesn’t like something, or don’t feel like a failure if you’re wrong. Just adjust, shift, and just keep moving forward. That’s the key — just keep moving forward.

Demian Farnworth: All right, Jerod, anything else?

Jerod Morris: I will just say, because I know that this episode is airing the Tuesday before the pilot launch for The Showrunner Podcasting Course ends — The Showrunner Podcasting Course pilot launch ends on May 8th. If you’re interested in podcasting and taking your podcasting to the next level and learning the tools and tips and the step-by-step instructions that you need, go to Showrunner.FM. There’s a signup form right there. That email form will put you on the Showrunner list.

As soon as you do that, then an auto-responder will send you the invite to the pilot launch, because you do have to be invited, and that’s the way that you get invited is by getting on the Showrunner email list. Then you can decide if you want to get in because the benefit of a pilot launch is that it’s $395. The price once we relaunch the course in the summer will be $495, so you’ll never be able to get it at this price again. Once you get that email, you’ll be able to go in and see if it’s for you, see everything that’s in the course, give it a try, and see if it’s for you.

We’d definitely love to see anybody who is excited about podcasting. We’d love to have you in there and work with you because we’re already seeing some great interaction there and some really great responses to the lessons. We’d love to have you join us in the course.

Demian Farnworth: All right, Jerod, thank you for consistently showing up to the show with me weekly to talk about content marketing and copywriting and podcasting. You have a good day, and we’ll talk soon. I know they are going to turn the tables on us, me, soon here. I look forward to a good grilling.

Jerod Morris: It’s my pleasure. By ‘talk soon,’ do you mean in five seconds when we transition and turn this around?

Demian Farnworth: Something like that.

Jerod Morris: Talk to you in five seconds.

Demian Farnworth: Thanks, Jerod. Take care, buddy.

Jerod Morris: Bye.

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The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience

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Comments

  1. Thea says

    May 8, 2015 at 5:59 AM

    Great interview. I got a lot out of this.
    It was relaxed, focused and full of important info.

    Can you remind me of the man’s website info for finding out about his podcast course?

    Thanks for this!
    Thea

    Reply
    • Demian Farnworth says

      May 8, 2015 at 3:28 PM

      Hi Thea, it’s right here” https://rainmaker.fm/series/showrunner/

      Reply

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