No. 068 The Showrunner’s Dilemma

The Transcript

The Showrunner’s Dilemma

Voiceover: This is Rainmaker FM, the digital marketing podcast network. It’s built on the Rainmaker Platform, which empowers you to build your own digital marketing and sales platform. Start your free, 14-day trial at Rainmakerplatform.com. Welcome to The Showrunner, where we have one goal, teach you how to develop, launch, and run a remarkable show. Ready?

Jerod Morris: Welcome back to The Showrunner. I’m your host, Jerod Morris, VP of Marketing for Rainmaker Digital. I am joined on this episode — glorious episode number 68 — by Jonny Nastor, who is the host of Hack the Entrepreneur, connoisseur of coffee, wearer of vintage t-shirts, drummer of punk rock beats, and on the day that we’re recording this, the birthday boy. Happy birthday, Jonny.

Jon Nastor: Thanks, man.

Jerod Morris: You’re welcome.

Jon Nastor: That was a nice, warm welcome.

Jerod Morris: Was it?

Jon Nastor: Yeah, I like it.

Jerod Morris: Very nice. I could make the welcome even warmer. I don’t know if you know this about me, but I do have a special talent when it comes to birthdays. I am not a singer by any means, although I fashion myself a singer. We were going through some old video tapes that my parents have of me when I was eight or nine. My wife and I were over at my parents’ house last weekend and we were going through this video tapes. My mom has this ridiculous video of me singing these New Kids on the Block songs.

I must’ve asked her, “Hey, will you film me like it’s a music video?” I have no recollection of this, so clearly I’ve blocked it out of my mind. But for some reason I’ve always had this latent desire to be a singer. Sometimes it comes out on people’s birthdays. I can’t sing any song, but for some reason I can sing the happy birthday song like Pavarotti. I’m not going to do it right now, don’t worry. But yeah, it’s a little secret talent that I have.

Jon Nastor: The happy birthday song as in “Happy Birthday”?

Jerod Morris: “Happy Birthday to You.”

Jon Nastor: Nice, I like how you preface by, “I’m not a singer.” You’re the only co-host on this show who has sang on, I believe, more than one occasion on this show.

Jerod Morris: I love to sing but I’m terrible at it. But I really love to do it. I’m thinking about taking voice lessons, actually, at some point. I don’t know. I’ll just say this — maybe at the end of the show if we have some extra time and people hang around all the way to the end, maybe I’ll sing you “Happy Birthday” in my deep, Pavarotti, baritone. Maybe I won’t, but maybe I will.

Jon Nastor: I’m going to work as hard as I can to drag this one out. Sorry, dear listener.

Jerod Morris: So you don’t have to hear it?

Jon Nastor: I’m dragging this one out.

Jerod Morris: Yes. With that said, I feel like we should jump into today’s topic. Because that’s the thing — I could go take voice lessons and try to have this career as a singer, but with work and family, and with trying to stay in shape, and with friends, and with trying to sleep — all these other things that I need to do, let’s just say it’s not very high on my priority list right now. We talked on our last episode, episode number 67, about how you balance parenting and being a podcaster. That conversation actually went in different directions than I thought. We actually ended up talking as much about balance as we did about actual lessons that we can learn from parenting that we apply to podcasting and vice versa.

For anybody who missed that episode, go back and take a look. We had on our run sheet this topic. The topic basically comes from a Tweet that Randi Zuckerberg — Mark Zuckerberg’s sister — Tweeted out. This was back in 2011. I don’t know if this started with her or if this started somewhere else. She basically called it the entrepreneurs’ dilemma: maintaining friendships, building a great company, spending time with family, staying fit, getting sleep — pick three. This idea of, “Work, sleep, family, fitness, or friends: pick three.” We were going to talk about this in the last episode but we saved it for today.

I’m excited to dive into it with you, Jonny, because I feel like you’ll have a really interesting perspective and probably diverse view point on it than I will. I’ll be very interested to see what our audience thinks, that’s why this episode especially, we want you to tweet us after it @jerodmorris and @jonnastor. We’re going to tell you how we think about this and then we’d love to hear how you think about this. As you listen or after you’re done, send us a Tweet and let us know what you think. With that said, you want to hop in and discuss this?

Jon Nastor: Yeah, let’s do it.

Jerod Morris: Before we do that, real quick, we want to remind everybody who is listening to go to Showrunner.FM and join our email list. It is the best way to declare yourself a showrunner and to connect with the show. Also to get weekly nuggets of showrunning wisdom in our “We Highly Recommend” section as well as announcements of future live Q&As that we do on Blab. Make sure that you are on the list. Go to Showrunner.FM. Add your email address. That is your way of declaring yourself a showrunner and becoming part of the ever-growing showrunner community. Go to Showrunner.FM and do that.

Work, Sleep, Family, Fitness, or Friends: Pick 3

Jerod Morris: All right, let’s talk about this article real quick, Jonny, as a way to preface this discussion. The article is called “Work, Sleep, Family, Fitness, or Friends: Pick 3. Randi Zuckerberg calls this the entrepreneurs’ dilemma. Does it ring true for you?” This is written by Jessica Stillman at Inc. She starts with, “Endless ink (and pixel space) has been spent discussing the challenges of work-life balance for founders. But entrepreneur and former Facebook director of market development (and Mark Zuckerberg sibling) Randi Zuckerberg managed to convey the challenges and tradeoffs of the entrepreneurial lifestyle in a rather more concise fashion on Twitter a few years back.”

This is the Tweet that I mentioned earlier: “The entrepreneur’s dilemma. Maintaining friendships. Building a great company. Spending time with family. Staying fit. Getting sleep. Pick 3.” “Want to see your kids, keep fit, and keep your business growing? Forget sleep, according to this formula. You won’t be spending much time with your friends, either. As Zuckerberg explained in a short interview, for her, fitness and friends often fall by the wayside. A sad reality but one she’s willing to level with the world about.”

Now, there’s some other really interesting comments in here — quotes from other entrepreneurs — that we’ll get to in a second. I’m curious, Jonny, from your perspective when you hear this dilemma at first, what’s your gut instinct in terms of how you make your choices in your life?

Jon Nastor: My gut instinct is I’ve never really thought about it in this way. I think this gives me the perfect alibi for why I don’t go to the gym and stuff, and why I don’t sleep enough or hang out with my friends enough. This is it. Now I have the reason. I have the excuse for all of it.

Jerod Morris: Because you’re an entrepreneur and it’s just the dilemma.

Jon Nastor: Yeah, exactly. Work and family to me are there first and foremost. Then probably sleep, I would say, after that. But I don’t even get a ton of that. Fitness — I’m terrible at fitness. Friends — I don’t really spend as much time as I would like to with them. It’s interesting, obviously it’s something we all deal with or struggle with, whatever you want to call it. Until you actually put a name to it and actually I think about it — it’s interesting in that way.

I only ever really seem to focus on the two, the work and family. Personally, those are the two, but I know that other ones slip. I know that sleeping is something that I don’t do super well sometimes. I know that fitness is something I’m terrible at. Maybe this will help me. This will be my four-minute mile, maybe. Now I’ll realize that there’s actually room for three not just two. Maybe this will actually help me break through that barrier that I didn’t even know I had.

Jerod Morris: That’s an interesting perspective though, looking at it like that to where you really focus on the work and the family. You’re looking at it as, “Now I can add one.” I think most people probably will get a little bit overwhelmed and feel like, “Oh, crap.” They try and do all five or maybe they really push to get four and they feel like they’ll have to take one away. You’re looking at it as, “Hey, this is cool. I’ll get to add one.”

Jon Nastor: I really try and focus on leaving space, typically, in my life. I hang out with friends. I’m in two bands with friends. I do see them at least once a week. It’s not a constant thing.

Jerod Morris: Once a week is pretty good though.

Jon Nastor: Totally. That’s once a week for each of them — there’s two bands. That’s twice a week. Fitness — I at least ride my bike every day or walk or ride my skateboard or something like that. I don’t go to the gym, per se. You know what I mean? I don’t do “fitness” as a thing as much as I should, but I do get exercise and activity outside. Also, obviously, family and fitness can be combined if you want. Just like work and family get combined sometimes for me.

How the Entrepreneur’s Dilemma Might Be Different for Showrunners Just Starting Out

Jerod Morris: This strikes me as interesting. You can almost add another layer if we look at this as the showrunner’s dilemma. Obviously this is why we wanted to bring this up here on The Showrunner, because a lot of showrunners are entrepreneurs. I think both of you and I have an entrepreneurial mindset and work in that environment. Most of the people that we encounter and have encountered through The Showrunner are very similar.

I think what’s interesting is that for some folks who are Showrunner listeners — people in the course, people we’ve interacted with — their podcast, their show is part of their work. Just like for you and I it is. Part of what we do on a daily basis for our jobs is podcasting. There are other people who maybe have a hobby podcast or it’s something on the side and it’s not necessarily part of their work, and it’s almost like they have a sixth element here where it’s like work, sleep, family, fitness, friends, or your podcast.

If they haven’t — and I think that’s an interesting spot to be in, where you really have to find a way if you’re a showrunner to be able to get that podcast out from on its own and into work as much as possible to be able to fit it in. Otherwise, trying to pick three from six is a lot harder. As long as it stays out there on its own it’s going to be even harder to fit it in to what you’re doing, because we only have 24 hours in a day. As you see, as soon as you start breaking this down, that time gets gobbled up so fast. It’s like you said, you try and leave space. Man, the way that this stuff adds up, leaving space and trying to do anything significant is really difficult to do.

Jon Nastor: Right. That’s a really good point. To me, it’s leaving space. Maybe it’s not. It’s interesting when you say that obviously for you and I, running a podcast is our job. It’s what we get paid to do and get to do. Obviously, you listening might have a job and also podcast. I think that to make it part of your work, even if you’re not getting “paid for it” right now — I think it’s important to share the importance with the people around you, whether that’s family or friends. Whoever it is you live with and they are surrounded by it. To share the importance of it with you and how you treat it like work. Get everyone on board with it.

When I say that I make space, my weeks are full and I have a really packed schedule, but I make space for it as in I take it serious. I did since the very beginning of starting to run a show, where my family knew that it was really important to me. I didn’t make any money off at that point. That wasn’t what it was for. But it was still a project that I was really into. So when I was making space for it — to do an interview or whatever it happened to be — they were making space for it and taking it seriously too. I think that’s important.

I know from talking to people that sometimes the issue can be where the importance level to you of running your show hasn’t been shared with the people around you. There has to be a discussion. Maybe that is what’s necessary so that everybody around you values it in the same way and then that space is available. Even though you’re not getting paid for it right now and it’s after the 40 hours you might have to work or 50 hours at your job, there still needs to be space for it — I think for you personally and for me personally — to get satisfaction from it and also to be successful as a showrunner.

It’s really important to do that, but I know from experience — don’t expect the people around you can read your mind and can tell how important something is to you without you making it very clear. Having those difficult conversations with people about that and making that really clear will leave that space where then you can work your job, but then also this is a job too. This is something I’m really into and value and need the time to do.

Understanding Goals and Objectives

Jerod Morris: I also think it can depend. I think it can be easy to look at this whole entrepreneurial dilemma and almost make it bigger in your mind than it really is. It depends on your perspective and what your goals are. Let’s remember, this is Randi Zuckerberg who’s the sister of the guy who founded one of the biggest startups ever, Facebook, that has gone on to be just one of the biggest companies in the world.

Let me read you this quote here from this guy, his name’s Jon Crawford, founder of Storenvy. He says, “Work, sleep, family, friends or fitness — pick three. It’s true. In order to kick ass and do big things I think you have to be imbalanced. I’m sure there are exceptions, but every person I’ve seen riding on a rocket ship was imbalanced while that rocket ship was being built. You have to decide if you want it.”

I think that is probably true. If you want to ride on a rocket ship and if you want to build a potentially billion dollar business and really go big, you probably do have to be imbalanced to do it. But there are countless examples, multitudes of examples of people building lifestyle businesses and doing it at a moderate, sustainable pace where they are able to maintain their relationships with their family and maintain their fitness and sleep a decent amount and keep everything in balance.

I think it can depend on what your goals are, what your objectives are and what kind of pace you’re okay with. Obviously if you need your show to be in the top 10 yesterday and you haven’t even started it yet — if you want to go on that fast of a pace you’re going to have to put in more hours per day to get there. If you’re okay going on a little bit of a more reasonable pace then you can spend maybe two hours a day instead of four hours a day. You’ll get there. It may take you twice the amount of time to get there, but you’ll still get there while being able to maintain balance. I think it’s so important to be intentional with what your goals are and with what your lifestyle design is going to be.

I know I’ve had to make a big change. To me, family comes first, and it didn’t always used to be that way. I had a relationship back when I first — I guess this was seven, eight years ago — that fell apart because I was working all the time. There was no balance. I was totally imbalanced. My fitness suffered. I didn’t sleep much. But I worked and spent time with friends. I realized that that was just a level of imbalance that wasn’t going to be sustainable for me. It wasn’t actually going to get me where I wanted to go. I think in all of our lives we all have something that takes up the time when there’s nothing there.

What fills the vacuum if you have a free moment? Are you going to work in that free moment? Are you going to spend time with your family? Are you going to go just do something else? For me, work was always the thing that filled that. I’ve made a very conscious decision to shift that and to make family the thing now that when there is free time, when there is open time, that fills the vacuum now. So it’s family first, work comes after that, and I often find that sleep and fitness actually go together. When I’m sleeping more I’m more fit and vice versa.

Sometimes those have to fall by the wayside when your work demands a little bit more attention. I’ve really tried to be much more intentional about not letting that happen. It can work for a day, it can work for a couple of weeks for me, but I know that after that everything then gets off-kilter and I spend more time trying to get back into balance than whatever I gained from being out of balance.

It’s just taken me trial and error and really being intentional about it to figure that out and putting some boundaries up to help keep me within the lines so that I’m going forward in a way that I actually want to. Friends, usually, is the one that gets cut for me and that gets the short end of the stick, which I don’t like. But I think it’s good to at least know what that thing is for yourself that you’re going to cut so that it makes those decisions a little bit easier when the tough decisions come.

Jon Nastor: To me, it’s really clear. As most things in my life, I don’t see them as binary or black and white anymore. I’m not going to kid myself and say that family comes before work all the time. Right now it does, but I know for a fact that a project is going to just consume me and take me and I’m going to love it. That’s going to get all the focus. Other things are going to go by the wayside and it’s just how it is. It’s how I work. It’s the reason why I don’t get into fad diets and stuff. “I’m going to do this now.” It’s like, “I’m going to try and eat better and I’m going to try and exercise a bit more.” That’s how I work. I just want to be a bit better in this thing. It’s not like, “Okay, all or nothing.” I’m not that kind of a person.

Ten years ago I would have said that, “Yeah, it’s all family and work for me, and then friends too.” That’s how it is right now, but this is just this moment in time. Literally in a month it could be different. I’m cool with that. My family’s cool with that and we know that then that won’t also be static. It will flow as projects come and go and as different things happen in our life, it’s just how it is. I think you need to be cool. Obviously if you’re launching a show in three weeks, I hope you’re not just going to be like, “My show will launch itself. I’ve said I’m going to go to the gym four hours a day and that’s what I’m doing no matter what.”

You’re also not going to launch a show then. That’s just how it is. Those things need to flow. Unfortunately, we only have so much time and resources to us, so therefore things do have to — you can’t just continually, “I’m always going to go to the gym for four hours every day.” You’re not going to do anything else then. You can’t do that. When people really are like, “I’m going to be regimented in this,” Life’s just not like that. It just really isn’t. Things can come out of the blue that you don’t even expect tomorrow that could make your family way more important than you ever expected or were realizing it is right now. That’s just how it works.

You’re coming into a very unique and family-oriented time in your life in the next week or two. It’s just how it is. You know what I mean? I hope that you’re not like, “No, it’s all work right now!” I’d be like, “Wow, dude you should really slow down a bit.” You know what I mean? Also in six months or a year, two years that could change. It could be like, “Wow, he’s ignoring his kid. He’s really into work again.” You know what I mean? It’s not how it is, things do flow. I think it’s good to be aware of the space we have and then also where we are now but maybe where we want to be but also knowing that things change and that’s cool.

Prioritize Rather Than Pick

Jerod Morris: I think the problem that I’m having here with this whole dilemma is the idea of picking three. Instead of picking three it should be prioritize three. Pick three suggests that the other two fall totally by the wayside and you get this all-or-nothing mentality, which I don’t think is good for anybody. I do think we always have to be mindful of our priorities at any given time and the fact that priorities can shift, as you said. If you think about it in terms of prioritizing three and if you say, “Okay, my priorities are family, work, and I want to make sure that I get enough sleep.”

That doesn’t mean that you never work out, that you’re not at all focused on fitness. But maybe you say, “Hey, right now this is a busy work season so instead of hitting the gym five times a week I’ve got to go two times a week because I’m prioritizing work.” Or, “All right, I can’t do the happy hour every week with my friends, but I can still do it once a month. And I can’t do the three trips that we planned, but I can still do maybe the one trip.” You’re prioritizing it. You don’t just totally disregard that, you still maintain a little bit of balance. You maintain that touchpoint. You’re just waiting until the next time when you’re priorities reshuffle and you look at it and you say, “Okay, work is a little bit not quite as crazy now. Let me start working out again five times a week.” You can get back to it.

I think looking at it in that way, in terms of priorities as opposed to these binary choices, like you said, I think that helps folks. One issue that we see showrunners run into — we talk about the dip, we talk about how when shows are just left for dead. I think a part of that is just diving all-in, really going all-in at the expense of other things. Then you wake up after show 20 and maybe you’ve gained 15 pounds, you’re not talking to your girlfriend anymore, you’ve struggled at work, and now you jerk back into the other direction where it’s like, “Now I got to start doing all this stuff again. I can’t do the show at all.”

I think if you can maintain, realize that all five — there’s still a level there. They’re still there on some level, you’re not totally disregarding them — that can help you avoid the total burnout that leads to the herky-jerky back and forth where you can’t really sustain anything. I think that’s really important. It’s one of the biggest lessons that I’ve learned and that I have to constantly remind myself of, because I think that can keep you moving in a forward direction with all of them longer as opposed to constantly starting and stopping and expecting to end up in any type of good place where you really feel balanced and happy and fulfilled.

Jon Nastor: Right, or start a podcast with your friends and family about work but only record it while at the gym. Then everything’s just done at once and everyone’s taken care of, everyone is happy and you’re a showrunner.

Jerod Morris: Then you just have to try and find some time to sleep and you’ve got it all.

Jon Nastor: Yeah, that’s true. Something’s got to slip, we just discussed that.

Jerod Morris: That’s right. We’d love to hear how this showrunner’s dilemma affects you. Again, send us a tweet @jerodmorris, @jonnastor. Do you view this in a different way? Do you have a different perspective on it? How do you prioritize for yourself? We’d love to know. It’ll help us get to know you better as an audience member and the audience better collectively. We’ll probably learn something from you. That happens so often. People email us, or discussions in the course that we have with folks, and we learn so many important lessons about things that we can do with our own shows. Ways that we can better interact with our audience, better manage and prioritize everything that’s going on. So we’d love to hear from you if you’d be so willing to share.
Jon Nastor: Yeah, that’d be cool. Even if maybe we’re not covering all the aspects. Now that I’m thinking about it, I really try and focus on getting alone time as well. That can be linked with fitness, but not really. I’ll go for a slow walk just to be alone to think about things and go over stuff. If you’re constantly trying to fill up every minute to optimize, you might miss out on something that’s really important to you that isn’t work, sleep, family, fitness, or friends.
Jerod Morris: You’ve got a point.

Jon Nastor: There’s a lot of other aspects of life, right?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, because where is learning in there? I guess you could say learning is part of work, but where’s just learning for learning’s sake, which is important? Or hobbies?

Jon Nastor: Exactly. Going for a walk and thinking about stuff — I could be thinking about work, but I could be thinking about family. It could be part of it. It will be interesting to hear if you have a different priority out there than even we’ve talked about.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, that would be really interesting. It does feel like some things are missing there. Again, maybe that’s part of the point. If we go back to the perspective of where this came from, these are from folks that are Silicon Valley-types. They’re trying to build billion dollar companies. They’re probably not thinking too much about hobbies and alone time and some of these other stuff, even if they need it.

Jon Nastor: Yeah, Randi has already been part of building one billion dollar company, now she’s working on her own. I guess one is not enough sometimes.

Jerod Morris: That’s why I would never want to be in that world. I would have no desire to be in that world, because being able to go take a walk and do that, that is important to me. Yeah, let us know what you think about that. Now, stay tuned for a special announcement that is related to what we just talked about. Jonny hinted at it a few minutes ago.

It’s podcast recommendation time, Jonny. For our podcast recommendation for this week we are going to recommend that folks — especially new audience members who may have just found us a couple of episodes ago or this episode or even 20 episodes ago — we want to give you this opportunity, invite you to go back into the archives and search for some episodes. Maybe some just-in-time learning. Something that you’re really thinking about doing right now.

Maybe you’re thinking about how to name your podcast, we have an episode in the archive about that. Maybe you’re thinking about how to conduct better interviews, we have tons of episodes about that. We want to invite you to go back into the archive and find some Showrunner episodes that maybe you haven’t listened to yet that are really going to be relevant right now to you. We want to give you some extra time to do this, so we are not going to have a new episode next week and maybe for the next couple of weeks. Jonny, is it true? Are we going on hiatus for the first time since we started?

Jon Nastor: Going on hiatus.

Jerod Morris: We are. This does coincide, not so coincidentally, with the impending birth of my first daughter. By the time you listen to this — this episode comes out on July 20th — it might have happened. The due date is the 29th, so the likelihood is that it hasn’t happened yet, but we’re anticipating that. Hey, family is a big priority for me, so I’m taking a step back from some work duties to make sure that I’m available for my wife and for my new daughter to fulfill my fatherly duties to the best of my ability. Yeah, as part of that we’re going to take a hiatus. Get a little breathing room. That’s why I want to invite you to take that time and find some episodes that maybe you haven’t listened to yet.

Jon Nastor: Man, I’m going to miss this.

Jerod Morris: I know, me too.

Jon Nastor: It’s for a good reason. It needs to be done. And I think we’ll come back renewed Showrunner vigor. I don’t know. I have no idea. I’ve lost it. But it will be fun. The first in one over a year — 68 episodes, I guess. That’s cool. We look forward. I’m going to say for everyone listening out there, I’m going to say that I hope that everything goes well with you and that you have awesome first month or whatever it is until we get to do this again. We’re looking forward to having you back but we hope you enjoy yourself.

Jerod Morris: Thank you. I look forward to it. I greatly look forward to it.

Jon Nastor: I was going to say, also, since we don’t have a recommendation for you — I think we just mentioned that because we are taking the time off. But if you are on Twitter and you’re giving us your ideas and thoughts on the main topic we just covered, you could also follow it up with a recommendation for myself. I have time. I may just be hanging out. I would like some new podcast recommendations from you.

I’m going to suggest that you recommend me at least one episode of one show that isn’t yours and why I should listen to it. Then you can follow it up with your show, because I would also like to check out your show too. I would like to actually know what you listen to as a showrunner. It’s interesting to me what we also listen to, but then also I would like to check out your show. Hit me on Twitter with that. That would be cool.

Jerod Morris: Very nice. Make sure that you go to Showrunner.FM. Join the email list. We do also have a few other projects that we’ve been working on that we’ll be able to spend a little bit of time on during this hiatus and have ready for you soon. Those will come. Get on the email list. You will be alerted as soon as they are ready, Showrunner.FM. Declare yourself a showrunner.

With that, we will talk to you all soon when we are back with a brand new episode. We don’t know exactly what date it will be later in August. If you’re on the email list, we will send you an email to alert you when the new episodes are up. Thank you for listening and for all of your support since, goodness, April of last year. We’ve had a new episode every week. It’s going to be weird not having one next week. Thanks always. Take care.

Jon Nastor: It’s been fun. See you on the other side, Jerod.

Jerod Morris: That’s right. Happy birthday, Jonny.

Jon Nastor: Thanks. Take care everyone.

Jerod Morris: All right, are you ready for this?

Jon Nastor: I’ll do it. Yes.

Jerod Morris: Okay, if you’re still listening out there you may want to turn the volume down a little bit because there’s only one volume that you can do this at, it’s got to be loud. Toby, you might want to adjust some things. All right, here we go Jonny.

[sings “Happy Birthday”]

Jon Nastor: Wow, I don’t know what I was expecting but that was not it. That was amazing.

Jerod Morris: Okay.

Jon Nastor: Thanks, man. It’s all downhill for me from there on in. Wow, that was not what I was expecting. Amazing.

Jerod Morris: All right, my apologies everybody who stayed on to listen to that.

Jon Nastor: Awesome. I hope this goes at the beginning of the episode.

Jerod Morris: No — well, you’re the one submitting it. I guess you can do whatever you want.

Jon Nastor: Awesome.

Jerod Morris: All right.