Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You ByWP Engine

Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting.

Start getting more from your site today!

Rainmaker.FM

The Digital Commerce and Content Marketing Podcast Network

  • Home
  • Shows
  • Hosts
  • About
  • Home
  • Shows
  • Hosts
  • About
  • Member Area
  • Log In
Menu
  • Log In
  • Free Training
7-Figure Small with Brian Clark
Confessions of a Pink-Haired Marketer
Copyblogger FM: Content Marketing, Copywriting, Freelance Writing, and Social Media Marketing
Get More Clients With Smarter Email Marketing
Hack the Entrepreneur
Members Only
Rainmaker.FM Elsewhere
Site Success: Tips for Building Better WordPress Websites
StudioPress FM
Technology Translated
The Digital Entrepreneur
The Missing Link
The Showrunner
The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience
Youpreneur with Chris Ducker
Zero to Book
The Showrunner
hosted by Jerod Morris and Jon Nastor

No. 078 Should You Still Start a Podcast? (Ask Yourself These 3 Questions)

  • Social:
  • Link:
  • Embed:
https://rainmaker.fm/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/showrunner-078.mp3
Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes
Previous Episode:[Rebroadcast] No. 077 The Right Way to Approach Branding Your Podcast More Episodes Next Episode:No. 079 Is It Okay to Alternate Between Monologues and Interviews?

All Episodes:

September 27, 2017

No. 107 Is Podcasting a Good Way to Reach My Target Audience?

September 20, 2017

No. 106 Should You Take Over Your Boss’s Podcast?

September 13, 2017

No. 105 How to Conduct Not-to-Miss Podcast Interviews

August 9, 2017

[Rebroadcast] No. 045 9 Lessons Learned Publishing a Book From a Podcast

August 2, 2017

[Rebroadcast] No. 051 How to Overcome Your Inferiority Complex as a Podcaster

July 26, 2017

No. 104 How Do I Create a Call-In Show?

July 19, 2017

No. 103 What Should I Do with My Archive?

May 24, 2017

No. 102 How to Immediately Become a More Productive (and Better) Podcaster

May 17, 2017

No. 101 Showrunner 101 (Back to Basics)

May 10, 2017

No. 100 We Answer Your Questions (and Celebrate 100 Episodes)

May 3, 2017

No. 099 3 Powerful Reasons to Produce More Evergreen Episodes

April 26, 2017

No. 098 Are You Overlooking This Proven Podcast Format?

April 19, 2017

No. 097 Are You Doing Enough with Your Best Ideas?

April 12, 2017

No. 096 What Got You Here Won’t Get You There

April 5, 2017

No. 095 5 Steps to Hosting Successful Live Online Events

March 29, 2017

No. 094 Sponsorships or Affiliate Marketing: Which Is Better for Your Podcast?

March 22, 2017

No. 093 How to Learn (and Teach) Better

March 15, 2017

No. 092 The ‘Create Anything’ Framework

March 8, 2017

No. 091 9 Steps to Becoming a Better Podcast Listener (And Why That Matters)

March 1, 2017

No. 090 Are You Spending Enough Time Thinking?

February 22, 2017

No. 089 Podcasting: The Stand-Up Comedy of Content Creation

February 15, 2017

No. 088 Podcasting Lessons From a Psychotherapist

February 8, 2017

No. 087 [Guest] Expert Tips for Conducting Better Interviews, with Krys Boyd

February 1, 2017

No. 086 10 Tips for a Better Show in 2017

January 25, 2017

No. 085 One Podcast, One Audience, or One Topic (Two Attempts)

January 18, 2017

No. 084 The Value of Meeting Your Audience in Person

January 11, 2017

No. 083 How to Rekindle Your Focus on the Other End of the Headphones

December 28, 2016

No. 082 How to Stop Listening to Podcasts and Start Your Own Show

December 21, 2016

No. 081 Professional Podcasting Tips for Pristine Production (and Hosting Hacks)

December 14, 2016

No. 080 Quick! What Can You Systematize Before 2017?

December 7, 2016

No. 079 Is It Okay to Alternate Between Monologues and Interviews?

November 23, 2016

No. 078 Should You Still Start a Podcast? (Ask Yourself These 3 Questions)

November 16, 2016

[Rebroadcast] No. 077 The Right Way to Approach Branding Your Podcast

November 9, 2016

No. 076 Is Your Intro Silently Killing Your Show?

November 2, 2016

No. 075 Why Podcast Advertising Works (and How to Get Started), with Glenn Rubenstein

October 26, 2016

No. 074 The Brilliant Strategy and Backstory Behind Zero to Book

October 19, 2016

No. 073 Empathy Maps: A Podcaster’s Guide

October 12, 2016

No. 072 How to Create a MVP (Minimum Viable Podcast)

October 5, 2016

No. 071 When Is the Right Time to Start Another Podcast?

September 28, 2016

No. 070 3 Important Lessons About Sponsorships That Will Make You More Money

September 21, 2016

No. 069 How to Identify Potential Guests for Your Show

July 20, 2016

No. 068 The Showrunner’s Dilemma

July 13, 2016

No. 067 What Being a Showrunner Can Teach Us About Parenting (and Vice Versa)

July 6, 2016

No. 066 5 Steps for Conducting a Useful Podcast Archive Audit (in 30 Minutes or Less)

June 29, 2016

[Rebroadcast] No. 065 Next-Level Tips for Building Your Show’s Email List

June 22, 2016

No. 064 Listener Life Cycles: A Podcaster’s Guide

June 15, 2016

No. 063 How to Never (Ever) Forget an Important Idea Again

June 8, 2016

No. 062 Beware: Authenticity Is Not Transparency

June 1, 2016

No. 061 Why the ‘Hell Yes’ Principle is the Key to Differentiation That Impacts an Audience

May 25, 2016

No. 060 How to Execute Engaging Podcast Interviews

May 18, 2016

No. 059 How to Differentiate Your Show in Meaningful Ways That Create Connection

May 11, 2016

No. 058 How to Plan Engaging Podcast Interviews

May 4, 2016

No. 057 How to Decide What Your Podcast Should Be About

April 27, 2016

No. 056 How to Book Engaging Podcast Interviews

April 20, 2016

No. 055 How (and Why) to Teach a Mini Course via Your Podcast

April 13, 2016

No. 054 Use Your Media Consumption to Fuel Your Podcast Creation

April 6, 2016

No. 053 How to Find the Perfect Ratio of Creation vs. Promotion

March 30, 2016

No. 052 How Jerod Grew Revenue by 1200% and Doubled Subscribers to The Assembly Call

March 23, 2016

No. 051 How to Overcome Your Inferiority Complex as a Podcaster

March 16, 2016

No. 050 Why Quitting Your Podcast May Be the Greatest Gift You Can Give Your Audience

March 9, 2016

No. 049 How to Get in the Door with Hard-to-Reach Influencers and Prospects Using Your Podcast

March 2, 2016

No. 048 Quick Case Study: How to Be Smart About Sponsorships

February 24, 2016

No. 047 Apple Podcasts Connect is Here (What it Means for You and Your Show)

February 17, 2016

No. 046 7 Mindset-Altering Lessons from a Recent Gary Vaynerchuk Keynote

February 10, 2016

No. 045 9 Lessons Learned Publishing a Book From a Podcast

February 3, 2016

No. 044 Build Authority, not Celebrity (Because Broccoli is Better Than Pixy Stix)

January 27, 2016

No. 043 Setting Yourself Up for Success in iTunes: Part Two

January 20, 2016

No. 042 How to Execute a Successful iTunes Launch: Part One

January 13, 2016

No. 041 The 3 Elements You Must Have Ready at Launch

January 6, 2016

No. 040 13 Steps to a Better Show in 2016

December 30, 2015

No. 039 Exciting News and New Years Resolutions for 2016

December 16, 2015

No. 038 Are You Looking For a New Way to Launch (or Relaunch) Your Podcast?

December 9, 2015

No. 037 Is It Time to Start Building a Team Around Your Show?

December 2, 2015

No. 036 Does Podcasting Daily Make You a Better Showrunner?

November 25, 2015

No. 035 A Buffet of Topics for (AMERICAN) Thanksgiving Week … Plus a Sandwich

November 18, 2015

No. 034 Next-Level Tips for Building Your Show’s Email List

November 11, 2015

[Rebroadcast] No. 033 Why Email Is Your Show’s Mandatory Companion

November 4, 2015

No. 032 How (and Why) to Submit Your Show to Podcast Directories

October 28, 2015

No. 031 Jonny Rants His Sinuses Clear About Social Media Strategy

October 21, 2015

No. 030 What Role Should Twitter Play in Your Show Promotion Strategy?

October 14, 2015

No. 029 How to Reach More Listeners in Less Time

October 7, 2015

No. 028 Good, Good, Good Advice for Recording Interview Guests and Co-Hosts

September 30, 2015

No. 027 To Script or Not to Script (That Is The Question)

September 23, 2015

No. 026 Sonia Simone on How a Podcast Fits Into a Content Marketing Strategy

September 16, 2015

No. 025 How to Easily Find and Schedule Guests for Your Podcast

September 9, 2015

No. 024 Essential Audio Tips from the Official Audio Engineer of Rainmaker.FM

September 2, 2015

No. 023 How to Admit That You Are Terrible at Podcast Interviews (and Why This Matters for Your Success)

August 26, 2015

No. 022 What Craft Beer and Food Trucks Can Teach Us About the Power of Collaboration

August 19, 2015

No. 021 Why Just-in-Time Learning is Critical for Your Show’s Future

August 12, 2015

No. 020 Why Podcasting is a Crappy Hobby, but a Great Job (Or is it?)

August 5, 2015

No. 019 From Stats to Sponsors: A Remarkable Show is Simply Great Content, On Demand

August 3, 2015

Showrunner Short: Live Reaction from Podcast Movement 2015

July 29, 2015

No. 018 The Art of Planning Before Podcasting

July 22, 2015

No. 017 Are You Giving Too Much Away for Free?

July 15, 2015

No. 016 How to Apply the Principles of Guest Blogging to Grow Your Show

July 8, 2015

No. 015 Darren Rowse Opens Up About the Strategy Behind His New Show

July 1, 2015

No. 014 Pro Tips on Building an Audience That Will Stick With You

June 24, 2015

No. 013 The Keys to Being Confident in Front of the Microphone

June 17, 2015

No. 012 Best Practices for Recording Interview Guests and Co-Hosts

June 10, 2015

No. 011 How to Deliver a Better Audio Experience to Your Audience

June 3, 2015

No. 010 Why Every Podcast Needs an Email List

May 29, 2015

Showrunner Short: What We Learned From a Misguided Decision This Week

May 28, 2015

No. 009 A New Way to Think About Your Show’s U.S.P.

May 22, 2015

Showrunner ‘Short’: The 4 Essential Elements of a Remarkable Podcast

May 20, 2015

No. 008 The 3 Components of Podcast Profitability

May 13, 2015

No. 007 The Importance of Treating Sponsorships Like Partnerships

May 6, 2015

No. 006 Podcast Interview Best Practices from a Guy Who Publishes 3 Per Week

May 1, 2015

Showrunner Short: Why Color Psychology Matters for Your Branding

April 29, 2015

No. 005 What Does It Mean to Be a Showrunner?

April 24, 2015

Launch-Day Bonus: The Power of Teamwork and Collaboration

April 22, 2015

No. 004 5 Easily Avoidable Mistakes That Cause Most Podcasts to Fail

April 15, 2015

No. 003 The Right Way to Approach Branding Your Podcast

April 8, 2015

No. 002 How to Decide What Topic to Podcast About

April 1, 2015

No. 001 Why Right Now is the Perfect Time to Start Your Podcast

November 23, 2016

No. 078 Should You Still Start a Podcast? (Ask Yourself These 3 Questions)

As Showrunners, we understand that the act of creation and publishing brings about detractors — sometimes more aptly referred to as haters.

To thrive in this space, we need to wear our first (and subsequent) negative reviews as badges of honour. This is part of the game and an integral part of being a Showrunner.

But what happens when the medium itself begins to make its own waves? It seems podcasting, as a medium, has reached a point in its life when it is beginning to take it on the chin.

From small jokes to snide remarks, we are seeing the first wave of these beginning.

On this week’s episode, Jerod and Jonny discuss one of the more recent and more popular articles aimed at today’s Showrunner.

Immediately following a whirlwind book promotion of 40+ podcast interviews, author Ryan Holiday took some downtime to deride the very medium he used to drive book sales.

Ryan’s article titled Please, Please, For The Love of God: Do Not Start a Podcast, is the topic of discussion in this week’s episode — and it’s a fun one.

Luckily for everyone involved, Jerod and Jonny go beyond Ryan’s article and discuss the three questions you need to answer to decide for yourself if you should start a podcast:

  • Do you have a desire to connect with an audience about a topic that is important to you?
  • Will the content you share educate, entertain, or inspire the people in your audience?
  • Can you commit to creating content consistently and reliably so that your audience has a chance to grow?

The Show Notes

  • This episode is brought to you by the Rainmaker Platform.

Listen, learn, enjoy…

Listen to The Showrunner below ...

No. 078 Should You Still Start a Podcast? (Ask Yourself These 3 Questions)Jerod Morris and Jon Nastor
  • Social:
  • Link:
  • Embed:
https://rainmaker.fm/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/showrunner-078.mp3
Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes

What Could Happen if You Launch a Podcast in the Next 30 Days?

The Beginner’s Guide to Launching a Remarkable Podcast is a simple, no-frills, 9-step plan to get your podcast off the ground..

Are you ready to start a remarkable podcast?

Get Your Free 9-Step Beginner’s Guide to Launching a Podcast … Today!

Listen to The Showrunner below …

The Transcript

Should You Start a Podcast?

Voiceover: Rainmaker FM.

Jerod Morris: This is Rainmaker FM, the digital marketing podcast network. It’s built on the Rainmaker Platform, which empowers you to build your own digital marketing and sales platform. Start your free, 14-day trial at RainmakerPlatform.com.

Welcome to The Showrunner, where we have one goal: teach you how to develop, launch, and run a remarkable show. Ready?

Welcome back to The Showrunner, the podcast for people dedicated to creating remarkable audio experiences for their audience. This is episode number 78. I am your host, Jerod Morris, VP of Marketing for Rainmaker Digital. I will be joined momentarily, as I always am, by my workshop-leading co-host, Jonny Nastor, the host of Hack the Entrepreneur. Here solo this week, not with seagulls.

This episode is brought to you by Audible. More on them later. But if you love audiobooks or have always wanted to give them a try, you can check out over 180,000 titles right now at of AudibleTrial.com/Rainmaker.

Jonny, you led a workshop last week. Real quick here, what was your impression of that experience, the first big workshop that you’ve led?

Jon Nastor: It was super fun. The hardest part was figuring out how to map out that much content into one thing. But once I got my head around it — it’s like a podcast episode, just longer. It was fun.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, that’s what I was curious about, how your experience as a podcaster — both what you’ve learned and all the experience that you have structuring content in that way — how that helped you when it came to leading a workshop?

Jon Nastor: Immensely. There’s no way … Two years ago, I couldn’t have done that workshop. The ability to be able to think on my feet and be able to speak as I’m thinking of things — I couldn’t do that two years ago at all. But now, spending two years almost every day doing it, it’s definitely helped. That part was me, because I put in that work. But the structuring and stuff — Pamela Wilson had just been on The Showrunner so I reached out to her. She gave me, in this one email, a couple paragraphs. It was like, “I got it. That’s how to do it.” So it all goes to her, all the credit.

Jerod Morris: That’s great. That is great. Hey, I don’t know if you knew this, but apparently, all podcaster are lazy, bandwagon-jumping people who just want to take the easy way out. No one else should start a podcast and the world would be better off if everybody put their podcast dreams in the wastebasket under their desk. Did you know that?

Jon Nastor: The funny thing is I heard something about this.

Jerod Morris: Let’s talk about this, shall we?

Jon Nastor: Let’s do it.

A Frank Discussion on Ryan Holiday’s Incendiary Article About Podcasting

Jerod Morris: All right. Obviously there in that intro section I was teasing an article that you as a showrunner, you’ve probably seen this. Maybe you have, maybe you haven’t. It was by Ryan Holiday, a guy — I think, Jonny, safe to say that we both respect and admire a lot of his work? Let me not speak for you. Is that something that you agree with? Are you a fan of Ryan Holiday’s work?

Jon Nastor: I’m a fan of some of his work.

Jerod Morris: Some of his work. Okay. Yes, I would say that as well.

Jon Nastor: His latest book is really good.

Jerod Morris: Yes.

Jon Nastor: His latest book is really good.

Jerod Morris: Ego is the Enemy. It definitely is.

Jon Nastor: Yeah.

Jerod Morris: He recently wrote an article called “Please, Please, For the Love of God: Do Not Start a Podcast.” You can imagine the reaction that Jonny and I had reading that headline. Sonia Simone recently talked about this article over at Copyblogger.FM. A lot of people have. We wanted to spend some time on this episode talking about this article, because there’s obviously some things in there that we don’t agree with.

I think there actually are some things in there that we do agree with too. What’s interesting to me, when you really dig into this article, is it’s got these really strong statements like, “Do not start a podcast.” It casts all kinds of aspersions on to people who are podcasting. But the way he couches it at the end and hedges, I think there’s actually some truth in what he’s saying, so we want to pick that apart. Then, after we do that, we want to get into this idea of, “Should you start a podcast?”

We actually have three questions that every aspiring podcaster, every aspiring showrunner should ask themselves. If you can answer in the affirmative, then you should start a podcast no matter what anybody is trying to tell you on another podcast, or an article, or anywhere else that you shouldn’t. We’re going to get to those here in just a second. Jonny, what were just your initial reactions to this article? Of course, we’ll have the link in the show notes for anybody who wants to read it if you haven’t read it yet.

Jon Nastor: My very first reaction was I rolled my eyes when I saw the headline. I had a feeling that it was going to be — not clickbaity, but the headline was written to get attention. And obviously it has. Then it was interesting how he — I guess he didn’t backpedal, but it wasn’t necessarily as strong of an opinion as the headline suggested, which obviously happens a lot in articles on the Internet.

I found it weird too, which I think was the first reaction I gave to you, and I still hold that reaction. I found it interesting because he just did a whirlwind podcast tour — Ryan Holiday — to promote his newest book, which we’ve already mentioned on the show. He did that through writing for these few publications he writes for, but also by hitting so many podcasts.

So he got the benefit of everybody who’s out there showrunning and struggling, making it work and building their audiences. He got to share his work with their audiences. And then he turns around … I think it’s because he dealt with probably 50 podcasters in two weeks or three weeks. There’s some good and there’s some bad everywhere you go. He just decided to focus on what he thought was negative.

He pulls out one of his friends, who runs one of the biggest podcasts around, and he uses him as something to aspire to. Obviously we’re all aspiring to that. But I didn’t like the way it was like, “I’m totally going to get everything I can from this medium, and now I’m going to turn around and tell you all the bad stuff that I found out about it while I was using it for my own good.” Take that as you will.

Jerod Morris: Yeah. I echo that sentiment. He even writes in here, “I like podcasting too much and value my own sanity and the sanity of other awesome people too much to think that the world needs us to collectively waste time on other people’s self-indulgent personal brand-building.” Look, there’s an element of truth in there, because if all you are doing with a podcast is being self-indulgent to build your brand and there’s no real substance there, then yeah, your podcast probably isn’t going to be great.

But to paint all aspiring podcasters with this really broad brush. Again, to cast aspersions on the intentions of people who are getting into podcasting and assuming that the majority of people getting into podcasting aren’t in it for the long haul, are just going to half-ass it, and can’t possibly understand … Like Jordan Harbinger said, he didn’t really get it until about 250 episodes in, a concept that we have talked about a lot here on The Showrunner. For him to just assume all of that and lump all aspiring showrunners into this group, I just thought was really unfair and wrong.

Certainly, Jonny, you and I have dealt with a lot of aspiring podcasters during the time that we’ve been running The Showrunner podcast and the course. Are there some that are like that? Sure, and they don’t last. Their shows may go on to iTunes and they’re there and they take up a little bit of space, I suppose. But otherwise, they’re not impacting you at all if you don’t choose to listen to them. So what are they really harming?

But there’s that other group out there that really are doing good things. Maybe they’re not going to be the next Art of Charm or the next Tim Ferriss Show, but they can get their small, thriving, really excited audience around whatever their topic is. And that is a good thing. People should be encouraged to do that if they’re willing to put in the work.

Jerod Morris: That’s the one element to this article that I liked, is him continuously coming back to this idea of, “Don’t half-ass it.” He quoted Tim Ferriss as saying, “Instead of half-assing it, find something that you can whole-ass,” which I thought was good. As he said, “That’s the kind of effort it takes to get it right, to get the kind of success that way too many people think they’ll have just by throwing something up on iTunes and calling themselves a podcaster. That’s what whole-assing looks like.”

That, I agree with. Which is, if you just think you’re going to record some audio episodes, throw them on iTunes, and then this money train is going to come, that is so wrong it’s not even funny. Your expectations are just so out of whack. But if you are willing to “whole-ass it,” as they say, and put in the work, then those are the kind of people that we should be encouraging to podcast. Not making them feel bad about it or making you feel like you’re just some trend-spotting, bandwagon-jumper because you’re going to do it. I thought that was really unfair.

Jon Nastor: Yeah, and the same thing could be said for any medium.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jon Nastor: People said that about Twitter. “I don’t want to see what people eat for lunch and a picture of their lunch.” Or the same for Instagram. Well, yeah, you can go on there and just do those things. You could go to podcast just to build your personal brand and do it in a terrible way and not focus on your audience, but that’s not how most people use it. To say that that’s how the platform of podcasting or the platform of Twitter works or the platform of Instagram or blogging …

Should you say that nobody should write another word because blogging is strictly for your own personal brand? He’s only writing this article for his own personal brand. That’s the reason why he’s putting it on another, bigger blog than his own, because way more people read it and they’re all going to link back to his book and hopefully buy his book from it. He’s a great writer, he really is. But I’m going to just guess — because I think that’s how everybody is — he probably wasn’t a great writer 10 years ago. He probably wasn’t a really good writer 20 years ago, whatever it was.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jon Nastor: You know what I mean? He’s pushed through. Like Jordan said, “It took me at least 250 episodes before I felt like I was really doing anything good.” It would have been unfortunate for the world — for Jordan, but also for the world and his audience — if Jordan had got to read this article in episode 120 and been like, “Wow, I’m not the best podcaster in the world, so I should just quit. I’m only doing it for myself.” Well, no. Obviously, to a certain degree, we do things for ourselves in a selfish way. That’s maybe where we started. But then we find our audience and we start getting good at something. We start wanting to get better at something.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jon Nastor: I don’t know. To me, I think he just dove way too deep into the podcast pool to promote his own stuff. He dealt with, non-stop, 50 people trying to book things and schedule things and say the same questions. All these things that might have happened across 50 things within a super compact amount of time. He was just like, “Oh my god, this is terrible. All of it.”

Jerod Morris: Yeah. The other thing, and you mentioned this, is the headline is “Please, Please, For the Love of God: Do Not Start a Podcast.” If we then skip back to the final line, it says, “So unless we’re going to put in the kind of work that Jordan or some of the greats have done, let’s just be listeners until we find something we are willing to invest in.”

The headline doesn’t exactly match his conclusion. The headline seems like a blanket statement, “Don’t start a podcast.” But what he’s actually saying is, “Don’t start a podcast unless you’re willing to put in the work to actually do it right.” And that’s no different than what we say on this show every single week. It’s really not that extreme of an opinion. But he dresses it up, there’s some incendiary language in there, and it’s got this really clickbaity headline, like you said. It’s going to give that impression. But again, he hedges and couches it here at the end, which is what I agree with. Because that is true. So I’m just not quite sure what the entire point was. Except what you said, maybe it’s just to blow off steam because he was a little annoyed at the whole thing with podcasts after promoting his book, I guess.

Jon Nastor: To me, it’s almost like the article is the worst of the podcasting market that he felt. It’s like he was only doing it for his own good. To me, there’s nothing for his audience out of this because the headline speaks completely different than the true sentiment of the article. So it’s like, “Was this just for self-indulgence or …?” I don’t know.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, allow this to be a lesson. I just want to say, allow this to be a lesson that when you are going to put a clickbaity headline on something just to get attention to it, you may get attention, but you may not get the attention that you want. Especially if the headline isn’t an accurate reflection of what you’re saying. Or if it’s just extreme and is going to set the wrong — build the wrong impulse for when someone gets there to your content for whatever it is. Be careful with that, because you may get attention that you don’t want. Now, maybe he did want this attention with this. I don’t know. Maybe he didn’t even write that headline. You never know any of those things.

Jon Nastor: Yeah, I was just going to say, we should give him the benefit of the doubt because we’ve both written for larger publications. Lots of times, as the writer, you don’t get final say on those things.

Jerod Morris: Right.

Jon Nastor: You write an article, you write a headline, and all of a sudden it’s like, “Oh, your post is live.” And it’s like, “Whoa, I didn’t write that. Oh, I did write this post, but that’s not the headline I chose.” So we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Jerod Morris: Although, the very last line — right after he says, “So unless we’re going to put in the kind of work, let’s just be listeners,” the final line is, “So please, please don’t start a podcast. Do your own thing instead.” Almost dismissing the fact that people will be willing to put in the kind of work that Jordan or the greats have done as if their ability to work hard is just something innate in them that only they will do. I don’t know.

That’s the one part about the article and the tone I didn’t like, the seeming assumption that him and his friends and his ilk have this magic ability to work hard and really commit and whole-ass something, and everybody else doesn’t. Which just isn’t true. You don’t have to have an audience of millions to do that. You may have your audience of a thousand people, but it’s really impacting those thousand people and it’s driving some kind of business result for you. It’s great and it’s thriving and that is awesome. And you may be working just as hard as those other guys are. So that’s the problem I have with it.

Let’s now use this to further a more important point. Because, Jonny, there are people who are … The very first episode of this show is “Why You Should Start A Podcast.” The reality, and we know this, is not everybody should start a podcast. There are probably people listening to this right now who have been thinking about starting a podcast, thinking about running a show, and maybe wondering if they should. They read an article like this, “Please, Please, Do Not Start a Podcast, For The Love Of God,” and they think, “Well, now I’m not going to start one.” But maybe they should. We have three questions that any aspiring showrunner should ask themselves if they want to start a podcast. You want to talk about those in just a minute?

Jon Nastor: Yeah, let’s do it.

Jerod Morris: Okay. First, real quick, this episode of The Showrunner is brought to you by Audible. Offering over 180,000 audiobook titles to choose from, Audible seamlessly delivers the worlds of both fiction and nonfiction to your iPhone, Android, Kindle, or computer. For Rainmaker.FM listeners, Audible is offering a free audiobook download with a free, 30-day trial to give you the opportunity to check them out. To get started right now, visit AudibleTrial.com/Rainmaker.

If you want a recommendation, try this: The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. This is one of my favorite books to read, and it works great as an audiobook, too. Plus, it’s short. So if you’re looking for a first audiobook to get started with to give the format a try, this one would be a great one to pick first, or you can choose from the thousands of other titles that they have too. To download your free audiobook today, go to AudibleTrial.com/Rainmaker. Again, that’s AudibleTrial.com/Rainmaker.

Jonny’s General Advice on Starting a Podcast

Jerod Morris: Alrighty, so let’s dive into of these questions, Jonny. Should you start a podcast? Before we list out these questions, what is the general advice that you give to people when they come to you and they ask you, “Jonny, I’ve been thinking about doing this show. Here’s my idea. Should I start it?” How do you approach giving that person advice?

Jon Nastor: I’m still thinking that you should start a podcast if you’ve taken it to the point where you feel like you have a topic that you can provide value into a specific audience. To me, the barrier to entry beyond that is so low that I think you should do it. Actually, I’ve expanded it further out to be that it doesn’t even necessarily have to be a “podcast” that gets published and follows episode after episode. I think that every person’s brand, every person’s business, should involve some form of audio content because of the way that we can connect, like with me speaking right now into a microphone and it going into your ears either in headphones or in your car or at your computer. There’s an intimateness to it that I don’t think you can get through text.

I’ve pushed people actually, “How about if you don’t feel comfortable with doing a whole show around it, why not just go to your About page or your Start Here page on your site and make an audio version? You can read the page and then go off the cuff for a bit and just post it there — 10 minutes of audio.” I think it really helps deepen that connection with your audience. And so, to that, I’ll push people. Because I honestly believe that audio has something that’s not there with other forms of media we create, so I will push people for it.

The Three Questions You Need to Decide for Yourself if You Should Start a Podcast

Jerod Morris: I agree. And I do think people should try to incorporate audio where they can. Certainly on their website, like the example that you just mentioned. Now, that’s not necessarily a podcast, per se, but it is getting into audio and providing those opportunities to connect with an audience.

But when it comes to starting a podcast — by podcast, we mean some kind of regular schedule on which you’re putting out these shows, which you would assume have some kind of consistent format about a specific topic, and that have some kind of audience-building goal, whether it’s just to build an audience because it’s about a topic that you like and you don’t really have a business goal for it, or you’re doing it to drive your business. Those are the elements that are going to be in place when we’re talking about should you start a podcast.

If you are thinking about doing that, here are the three questions that you should think about — and answer honestly. It’s really important to answer honestly. If, for any of these questions, you answer no, then maybe it’s not the right time. But if you can answer yes to all three of these, then there is absolutely no reason that you shouldn’t start a podcast. And there’s no article online that should be able to dissuade you from doing so. Here are the three questions.

#1: Do You have a Desire to Connect with an Audience About a Topic that is Important to You?

Number one — and this is what Jonny was just getting at — do you have a desire to connect with an audience about a topic that is important to you? That’s really important. Obviously it’s got to be a topic that is important to you, and you have to have a desire to connect with an audience about it. Because if it’s just a topic that’s important to you, go read a book about it. Go dive in that way. You don’t necessarily need to broadcast information about it. But if you want to connect with an audience about that topic, then a podcast is a great way to do it.

#2: Will the Content You Share Educate, Entertain, or Inspire the People in Your Audience?

Number two, will the content you share educate, entertain, or inspire the people in your audience? Because that’s what it’s going to need to do for you to eventually connect with an audience. These questions do link together. So you want to think about that. You’re not just putting out bland content. It needs to be content that will either educate, entertain, or inspire — and hopefully do two or three of those things simultaneously. If you have this desire to connect about a topic that’s important to you and you’re going to create this content that will educate, entertain, or inspire, that’s another reason to start a podcast.

#3: Can You Commit to Creating Content Consistently and Reliably so that Your Audience has a Chance to Grow?

The third question is, can you commit to creating content consistently and reliably so that your audience has a chance to grow? When we say commit, that means commit to at least doing it for 25, 30 episodes. You’ve got to get past that first dip that you’re going to get at about seven to 10 episodes. You’ve got all that enthusiasm at first, but you’re not very good. You just shot out of the gate. It’s the sprint. Most people hit that low after seven to 10 episodes, so you want to power through that and get to that next low which, a lot of times, comes at that 25, 30 episode mark.

But now you’ve gotten a little bit of experience. You’re getting a little bit better. You’ve probably built a little bit of an audience with it. Now you can make a bit more of a judgment for, “Okay. I can do this a little bit. I’m excited about this. I like this. Let me really move forward.” But if you’re not going to commit to doing it for 25, 30 episodes, then you’re never really going to have had enough experience to be able to make an accurate judgment about if it’s a smart activity to continue doing.

Do you have a desire to connect with an audience about a topic that’s important to you? Will the content you share educate, entertain, or inspire the people in your audience? And can you commit to creating content consistently and reliably so that your audience has a chance to grow? If you can answer “yes” to all three of those questions, you absolutely should start a podcast. If you answer “no” to any of them, then I would rethink it. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t start one necessarily, but it does mean that you may want to rethink it and see what it will take to get to yeses on all of those before you begin. Jonny, your thoughts on those three questions.

Jon Nastor: Yeah. I want to add an extra thing to each one.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jon Nastor: It’s not a preface. It’s not a disclaimer. I’m not sure what it’s going to be. Do you have a desire to connect with the audience about a topic that is important to you? Yes. You have to answer yes to that. But don’t feel like you have to have a planned-out roadmap for the next year or two about how you’re going to build this massive audience around it.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jon Nastor: It’s that desire. That’s all you need, is that desire to connect. To me, that’s enough to start, because we don’t really know where these things are going to go. I didn’t know where I would end up when I started Hack the Entrepreneur. But I had the desire to connect with that first person at least, and then hopefully, more.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, you knew you didn’t want to just study entrepreneurs. You wanted to connect with an audience about it.

Jon Nastor: Exactly.

Jerod Morris: You didn’t know the path, but you had that desire. It’s a good distinction.

Jon Nastor: Exactly. I just wanted to make that distinction so we didn’t lead people like, “Well, I don’t know how I’m going to get my first 10,000 listeners.” Because that’s a huge thing to know when you’re just starting.

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Jon Nastor: The next one, “Will the content you share educate, entertain, or inspire the people in your audience?” Again, I would almost preface this with, “Do you have a desire to do that?” because I probably entertained people for reasons that I shouldn’t have in my first 50 episodes. Probably because I wasn’t very good. I had never interviewed anybody. I stumbled over my words sometimes. It’s just how it was. But like Jordan Harbinger said in the article previous to this, it took him 250 episodes to even get good. Not that it will take you 250. We usually say 50. Around 50 episodes with Hack the Entrepreneur I started to get okay. But just know that.

Again, you don’t have to be able to educate, entertain, and inspire from episode one, but you have to have a desire to do those things. Because nobody will pay attention if you’re not at least aspiring to inspire, educate, or entertain. I honestly believe that. But don’t think that you just have to be a natural-born showrunner, because none of us are. We all do it through doing it over, and over, and over again. Which leads to commitment, which, absolutely, there’s nothing I can preface or disclaim about that. You just have to be willing to go at it for the long haul or else don’t even start.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, and you have to understand that it’s not easy. It’s like this show — showing up for this show every single week. Do we love it? Yes. But there are some weeks that it’s harder than others, and it’s still a weekly commitment. Especially after you’ve been doing a show for 25, 30 episodes, sometimes that weekly commitment can get a little bit tedious to where it’s like, “Man, it’d be nice to use this time for something else.” So you’ve really got to commit to it and understand that there are going to be some times when it’s a slog. But if you have that desire to connect and if you have that desire to create content that educates, entertains, and inspires, then that will help you keep that commitment.

Sometimes, you just show up to keep that commitment and that’s what gets you back there. But that’s okay, because that keeps you going and keeps you moving forward. You’ll find that there are different ebbs and flows of momentum with your show. That is natural. It’s not always … That initial rush of enthusiasm that you get right at the beginning, it’s probably not always going to be like that.

It may be like a relationship. Even in the best relationships it’s not always like those first moments when you fell in love, but there are those elements of deeper love that are there in a relationship. The same thing with your topic and with your audience as you move forward as a showrunner. Those are what keep you coming back and really make you the kind of showrunner that you can be. That’s what you want to get to, ultimately. That’s where the successful showrunners ultimately are with their shows. But it doesn’t come easily for anybody.

You go to make that commitment. When you do that, you give yourself a chance to get to that point. When you get there, it’s a beautiful thing, just like with any great relationship. Once you’ve been there for the long-term and you’re in it for the right reasons, there are few things that are more fulfilling. And that’s where we want you all to get. But you got to be able to answer these three questions. When you can, then you’re going to be able to take those right first steps that will get you on the right track to get in there.

Jon Nastor: Well said, Jerod. I wanted to interject a joke into that, but I was like, “Oh, he did so well.”

Jerod Morris: I always end up coming back to comparing podcasts to relationships.

Jon Nastor: I know, and I was going to take it to, “And tons of people are horrible at relationships. They create abusive relationships. There’s divorce rates out of the thing. Maybe we should call this episode ‘Please, Please, For the Love of God, Do Not Start Another Relationship.’”

Jerod Morris: Yeah, start a podcast instead.

Jon Nastor: You know what I mean? You could take the worst of anything and say “Well, you should just never do that.” Come on, it’s obviously not the truth.

Jerod Morris: Yeah. Exactly.

Jon Nastor: I won’t ruin it with that joke. I’ll leave it out because you ended it so well.

Jerod Morris: Excellent. Thank you for being here on this episode of The Showrunner, we appreciate it. Go to at Showrunner.FM. Join our email list. Get our weekly email newsletter. We put a lot of good stuff in there. We hope you get that. We will be back — hey, this episode is going live on the 23rd of November, by the way, so happy Thanksgiving to all of you in the United States who will be celebrating Thanksgiving tomorrow. We’ll be back next week with another brand new episode, and we look forward to it.

Jon Nastor: Take care.

Never Miss New Shows and Episodes on Rainmaker.FM

Get the best of the Rainmaker.FM network in a single weekly email, along with two weeks
of free training that will change the way you think about online marketing ...

Free Registration

You might also like...

The Digital Entrepreneur

Does Traditional PR Really Matter Anymore?

Listen to episode
Editor-in-Chief

8 Signs of Weak Writing that Turn Off Readers

Listen to episode
The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience

Is the Novel Dead? Part Two

Listen to episode
The Digital Entrepreneur

Jay Baer on “Generosity Marketing” and the Power of Business Podcasting

Listen to episode
Site Success: Tips for Building Better WordPress Websites

[39] 3Q for Picking the Right Email Marketing Service

Listen to episode
The Digital Entrepreneur

How to Become a Digital Media Showrunner

Listen to episode

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You ByWP Engine

Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting.

Start getting more from your site today!

Copyright © 2023 Rainmaker Digital, LLC. Powered by the Rainmaker Platform.

Privacy Policy  ·  Refund Policy  ·  Cookie Policy  ·  Terms of Service  ·  Contact